Tyres

**windy** · 11-06-2013, 09:30 AM

G'day guys, I am looking at getting some intermediate tyres for the upcoming cold wet months at the track. I don't think I need full wets until I start racing.
Just wondering what you guys recommend and if anyone has anything lying around..
Cheers,
Nathan

**Marshy** · 12-06-2013, 07:39 AM

I have a set of Pirelli Wets on a set of rims, ready for damp conditions. These are the 'inter' tyre from Pirelli (as distinct from the Rain tyre, which is confusingly their wet tyre). I haven't actually had the opportunity to try them yet, but they look and feel like the goods!

The other great option for an intermediate tyre (most race guys do this) is to use old wets that are a bit torn up. They are perfect for the damp, and it doesn't matter if you destroy them!

Road tyres are next to useless on track in the wet/damp. You might as well be on slicks.

**Tristan** · 23-06-2013, 08:02 PM

Hey marshy have you got another set I could grab cheers Tristan

**Negrogrande** · 23-06-2013, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tristan

Hey marshy have you got another set I could grab cheers Tristan

+2

**Marshy** · 24-06-2013, 08:02 AM

I've got a good used set of Dunlops for $200. I've also got a brand new set of Pirellis that are really for me, but I could be persuaded to give them up to help out you guys for this wet week. Will sell them at cost, which was about $500 (I will check the paperwork to confirm, if anyone needs them).

If you bring rims over, I will fit them for free.

**Negrogrande** · 24-06-2013, 08:29 AM

I'll take the dunlops off your hands

I'll grab them on Thursday morning do we have a TT garage?

**Marshy** · 24-06-2013, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Negrogrande

I'll take the dunlops off your hands

I'll grab them on Thursday morning do we have a TT garage?

Sorry mate, Tristan was PMing me last night and this morning, and turned up very shortly after my post to get them fitted. The dunlops are gone. I can still sort you out with the Pirellis if needed.

Yes, we will have a TT garage on Thursday! I'll confirm the actual garage number shortly.

**Negrogrande** · 24-06-2013, 12:40 PM

damn too slow,

new ones might be a bit rich for me, will see how it pans out

cheers,
Andrew

**Condor** · 29-06-2013, 07:50 AM

Hey Marshy can you plz post them trye recommendations you where saying the other day. Cheers mate

**Marshy** · 29-06-2013, 08:52 AM

Thanks for the reminder!

Ok, so for the front, the tyre to get is the Dunlop KR106 "UK Ntec" (known as that because it's made in the UK, unlike D211s which are made in France, and KR448/449s which are made in the USA, known as "US Ntecs"). With the KR106, you must get the 302 compound, as the other 2 compounds are too soft and wear out very quickly. The 302 will last roughly forever, and are still the best gripping front tyre on the planet. Honestly, you can do things on the front Dunlop that would have you sliding down the track on any other tyre.

There's plenty of choice in rear tyres. The Bridgestones are very good, particularly the 'old' tyre (the R04). The new V01 has silly amounts of grip initially, but goes away after only 10 laps or so, whereas the R04 isn't as outright grippy but is very consistent over the whole life of the tyre.

The Pirelli rears are good for track day riding, particularly the SC2. They don't have massive outright grip, but they last forever and are consistent. It's currently too cold to be running an SC1 rear anyway (although the fronts are reversed, and you should be running an SC1 front in this weather, and an SC2 front when it's much hotter).

I've heard the rear Metzlers are a good thing, but I haven't tried them yet. Similar to the Pirellis, as they are made in the same factory.

But these are all slick tyres. The thing to bear in mind is that for track days like Thursday (or all of this week by the sound of it), the organisers won't let you out on a damp track. So if you don't race and only do track days, a treaded tyre is probably the way to go. In that case, there are the equivalent Dunlops to the KR106 and 108, which are the UK Supersports tyre. Exxy, but awesome.

Some guys love the Bridgestone R10s (eg Stu23), but I'm personally not really a fan for racing. Again, awesome initial grip, but the grip doesn't last the life of the tyre. Great for track day pace though.

Then the Pirelli SuperCorsas are essentially the equivalent of the Superbike slicks, but with tread. They are the tyres on Condor's bike at the moment. Again, in this weather, the choice would be SC1 front and SC2 rear. These would be my recommendation for track day guys - plenty of grip, good wear rates and tyre life, and tread for days where it's damp (but don't forget that they are essentially a slick with token tread to qualify for the 'treaded race tyre' rules, so they really have no more grip than a slick in the rain. But you can at least get out on track when they should be letting slicks out but don't because they are idiots).

Hope that helps!

**Negrogrande** · 29-06-2013, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Marshy

don't forget that they are essentially a slick with token tread to qualify for the 'treaded race tyre' rules, so they really have no more grip than a slick in the rain. But you can at least get out on track when they should be letting slicks out but don't because they are idiots).

Hope that helps!

sage advice there

outside of the river of Oil & the back section grip was fine when they finally let us out on slicks. now to tear the bike down and replace whatever went peeking through my stator cover

**Condor** · 29-06-2013, 02:28 PM

Covered everything i needed to know. Cheers

**Phat3R** · 29-06-2013, 04:35 PM

Could we make this a sticky thread Marshy, re your tyres post ... most useful. Yeah I learned my slicks lesson on Thursday ... gotta find some more GSXR600K1 rims for my Q2's.

**Marshy** · 29-06-2013, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Phat3R

Could we make this a sticky thread Marshy, re your tyres post ... most useful.

Stuck! Good idea, thanks

**CLIFFY** · 29-06-2013, 07:49 PM

I've run half a dozen odd Metzlers.
They do behave the same as the superbikes.
Same life.
Same pressures.
Break traction in the same circumstances.
Over $100 cheaper a set is the only difference I know between these 2.

**windy** · 29-06-2013, 07:57 PM

Great info marshy, thanks heaps. Just thought I would ask about dunlop rears? What you think etc. then the question of where is the best place to source these.

**Eddie Lee** · 29-06-2013, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Marshy

Thanks for the reminder!

Ok, so for the front, the tyre to get is the Dunlop KR106 "UK Ntec" (known as that because it's made in the UK, unlike D211s which are made in France, and KR448/449s which are made in the USA, known as "US Ntecs"). With the KR106, you must get the 302 compound, as the other 2 compounds are too soft and wear out very quickly. The 302 will last roughly forever, and are still the best gripping front tyre on the planet. Honestly, you can do things on the front Dunlop that would have you sliding down the track on any other tyre.

There's plenty of choice in rear tyres. The Bridgestones are very good, particularly the 'old' tyre (the R01). The new V01 has silly amounts of grip initially, but goes away after only 10 laps or so, whereas the R01 isn't as outright grippy but is very consistent over the whole life of the tyre.

The Pirelli rears are good for track day riding, particularly the SC2. They don't have massive outright grip, but they last forever and are consistent. It's currently too cold to be running an SC1 rear anyway (although the fronts are reversed, and you should be running an SC1 front in this weather, and an SC2 when it's much hotter).

I've heard the rear Metzlers are a good thing, but I haven't tried them yet. Similar to the Pirellis.

But these are all slick tyres. The thing to bear in mind is that for track days like Thursday (or all of this week by the sound of it), the organisers won't let you out on a damp track. So if you don't race and only do track days, a treaded tyre is probably the way to go. In that case, there are the equivalent Dunlops to the KR106 and 108, which are the UK Supersports tyre. Exxy, but awesome.

Some guys love the Bridgestone R10s (eg Stu23), but I'm personally not really a fan for racing. Again, awesome initial grip, but the grip doesn't last the life of the tyre. Great for track day pace though.

Then the Pirelli SuperCorsas are essentially the equivalent of the Superbike slicks, but with tread. They are the tyres on Condor's bike at the moment. Again, in this weather, the choice would be SC1 front and SC2 rear. These would be my recommendation for track day guys - plenty of grip, good wear rates and tyre life, and tread for days where it's damp (but don't forget that they are essentially a slick with token tread to qualify for the 'treaded race tyre' rules, so they really have no more grip than a slick in the rain. But you can at least get out on track when they should be letting slicks out but don't because they are idiots).

Hope that helps!

Hey Marshy, I am currently running treaded SC1 front and SC2 rear, what is the difference between it and SP1/SP2??
Haven't timed myself before, but I guess I have improved from >3mins on new SMP section to ~2:20sec, so should I go UK Ntec front and SC2 rear to maximize the front grip for sunny day track riding?? Thanks

**Marshy** · 29-06-2013, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Eddie Lee

Hey Marshy, I am currently running treaded SC1 front and SC2 rear, what is the difference between it and SP1/SP2??
Haven't timed myself before, but I guess I have improved from >3mins on new SMP section to ~2:20sec, so should I go UK Ntec front and SC2 rear to maximize the front grip for sunny day track riding?? Thanks

Hey Eddie, do you mean the Superbike Pro when you say SP1/SP2?

There are a few different Pirelli models. There's the Superbike slicks, which are the proper 'race' slick, and also the Superbike Pro slicks, which are confusingly not for racing but are the 'track day' tyre. They have waaaaay less grip, but are designed to last a long time. As the proper Superbike SC2 rear lasts for weeks already, I cannot see the point of the Pro version and don't recommend them for anyone! By all accounts, any decent rider will quickly overcome their limited grip.

The treaded Pirellis (the SuperCorsa) are essentially the same as the Superbike tyres. They are a good tyre, and are particularly great for trackdays as mentioned, because you can get on track when it's declared 'wet' and it shouldn't be.

If you don't have spare rims to put them on, I'd stick with what you are using for a bit longer Eddie, and maybe later in the year give the UK front a go.

**Marshy** · 29-06-2013, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by CLIFFY

I've run half a dozen odd Metzlers.
They do behave the same as the superbikes.
Same life.
Same pressures.
Break traction in the same circumstances.
Over $100 cheaper a set is the only difference I know between these 2.

They are actually made in the same factory! Some guys say they are identical except for the branding, and other guys reckon the compound is just slightly different. But yeah, same production line, so essentially the same product

**Marshy** · 29-06-2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by windy

Great info marshy, thanks heaps. Just thought I would ask about dunlop rears? What you think etc. then the question of where is the best place to source these.

Dunlop rears are a vexed question, as I struggle to get consistent performance from them. I used to run them quite a bit, but moved on due to this inconsistency. Recently I've been running the UK Ntec KR108 rears; I was lucky enough to pick up a couple of lightly used ones, and they were awesome!! I got 2 full days of hard use before they'd heat-cycle off (they looked great, but the grip really went away). Great, very even wear; loved them!

Then I bought 3 new ones (they are $440 each!!), and destroyed 2 of them in about half a day each. Very expensive exercise, that one

Buggered if I know why; I haven't quite sorted that yet - possibly a temperature issue?

The US rears are kinda fun! They are awesome for 10 or 15 laps, then they get quite slippery and squirrelly but continue to provie heaps of grip, even though they are sliding around a lot. I actually like this feel quite a bit, and often I go fastest when I've taken the initial outright grip from a tyre and it starts moving around a bit (or even a lot).

The major, major advantage with Dunlop rears is that they slide very, very progressively. It's actually not unsettling to hang the rear out in a big powerslide - something that will highside you on another brand. Pirellis particularly, and less so the Bridgestone, when you pass the limit just let go suddenly, with no warning. But it's swings-and-roundabouts: the progressive sliding also means that they move around more. Suits me, but not some people.

But tyre life isn't fantastic from the Dunlops (any of them, really). They are much more sensitive to temperature than some other brands, so it's important to get the right compound for the conditions. They are prone to tearing up, and when they do, they don't recover or 'clean up' like some tyres if you go gently on them for a bit.

**Eddie Lee** · 29-06-2013, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Marshy

Hey Eddie, do you mean the Superbike Pro when you say SP1/SP2?

There are a few different Pirelli models. There's the Superbike slicks, which are the proper 'race' slick, and also the Superbike Pro slicks, which are confusingly not for racing but are the 'track day' tyre. They have waaaaay less grip, but are designed to last a long time. As the proper Superbike SC2 rear lasts for weeks already, I cannot see the point of the Pro version and don't recommend them for anyone! By all accounts, any decent rider will quickly overcome their limited grip.

The treaded Pirellis (the SuperCorsa) are essentially the same as the Superbike tyres. They are a good tyre, and are particularly great for trackdays as mentioned, because you can get on track when it's declared 'wet' and it shouldn't be.

If you don't have spare rims to put them on, I'd stick with what you are using for a bit longer Eddie, and maybe later in the year give the UK front a go.

I meant Diablo Supercorsa SP tyres. I know for Pirelli, there are:

Treaded:
- Diablo Supercorsa SC compound (that's what I am using on my bike at the moment

)
- Diablo Supercorsa SP compound...? (Don't what that is but I heard of there is something like this if not wrong...?

)

Slick:
- Diablo Superbike Slick SC (those are the SC1 and SC2 we were talking about for slick)
- Diablo Superbike Pro Slick (As you mentioned above, last long but not as gripy)

So does it mean the supercorsa sc is the same as the superbike slick sc just the treaded version theoretically speaking?

Yea true, so far I am quite comfortable on the tyres I am running, prob no point to spend a grand on spare rims and much higher value on uk ntec. By the way, what's the difference on price for uk ntec front and sc1 front?

**windy** · 30-06-2013, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Marshy

Dunlop rears are a vexed question, as I struggle to get consistent performance from them. I used to run them quite a bit, but moved on due to this inconsistency. Recently I've been running the UK Ntec KR108 rears; I was lucky enough to pick up a couple of lightly used ones, and they were awesome!! I got 2 full days of hard use before they'd heat-cycle off (they looked great, but the grip really went away). Great, very even wear; loved them!

Then I bought 3 new ones (they are $440 each!!), and destroyed 2 of them in about half a day each. Very expensive exercise, that one

Buggered if I know why; I haven't quite sorted that yet - possibly a temperature issue?

The US rears are kinda fun! They are awesome for 10 or 15 laps, then they get quite slippery and squirrelly but continue to provie heaps of grip, even though they are sliding around a lot. I actually like this feel quite a bit, and often I go fastest when I've taken the initial outright grip from a tyre and it starts moving around a bit (or even a lot).

The major, major advantage with Dunlop rears is that they slide very, very progressively. It's actually not unsettling to hang the rear out in a big powerslide - something that will highside you on another brand. Pirellis particularly, and less so the Bridgestone, when you pass the limit just let go suddenly, with no warning. But it's swings-and-roundabouts: the progressive sliding also means that they move around more. Suits me, but not some people.

But tyre life isn't fantastic from the Dunlops (any of them, really). They are much more sensitive to temperature than some other brands, so it's important to get the right compound for the conditions. They are prone to tearing up, and when they do, they don't recover or 'clean up' like some tyres if you go gently on them for a bit.

Thanks mate, fantastic info.

**BoB** · 23-07-2013, 08:21 PM

Tyre compounds.. ???

Currently using up my 003's and r10 rears , am i correct in saying that a hard tyre would be best suited for the colder days and the soft ones for hot track temp. If that theory is correct is it the hard tyre generates more heat when flexed compared to the soft one reducing cold tear issue.

Anyone else using the 003's or r10 rears . do you use them until it wears just just above the wear indicator or much below .. are they progressive in loosing grip when they get below the wear indicator ( is the wear indicator just for street legal use?)

**chubb** · 23-07-2013, 08:25 PM

Depends on the manufacturer. Bridgestones go softer in compound if its cold and harder if its hot. Dunlops are the opposite. Pirellis are different again with front and rear at polar ends.

According to whitey, I run my slicks till I cant see the wear indicator no more. Usually last 2 to 3 days. The fronts last slightly longer

**Baddie** · 24-07-2013, 04:26 AM

Here a few videos/reading material that may help with your choices

Bridgestone V01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpTAS5MDm1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm_WZOAMjZE

http://feelthetrack.com/testing-prog...y-victoria/New Pirelli Range.

http://moto.bridgestone.eu/knowledge...le-slick-tyre/

Pirelli 2013 range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65lVAk0Wr5Q

**Marshy** · 24-07-2013, 06:15 PM

Interesting!! (mostly). The Broadford one is a joke, though.

**dan** · 26-11-2013, 02:50 PM

What is the cheapest option when it comes to buying tyres new?

**Mr.Ed** · 26-11-2013, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by dan

What is the cheapest option when it comes to buying tyres new?

Slow and very few laps!

**Marshy** · 26-11-2013, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Ed

Slow and very few laps!

Hmmm.... I like that

Dan, you miiight need to be more specific. Brand? Model? Size?

**dan** · 26-11-2013, 07:05 PM

Haha yes, of course. I'm very fond of my French and UK Ntecs. What is the best option for picking up new ones?

**dan** · 26-11-2013, 07:06 PM

Basically... is there a good option locally or do people look o/s?

**Mazabuzz** · 26-11-2013, 08:10 PM

These guys are really good and quick delivery. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DUNLOP-SP...item257d0ff2ba

**Mr.Ed** · 26-11-2013, 10:15 PM

Yep, I've bought from them before and other than having to add the tire change $ at the track no complaints!

**dan** · 26-11-2013, 10:22 PM

Got Marshy for tyre changing!

**Mr.Ed** · 26-11-2013, 10:31 PM

Then you're sorted!

**Jashdown** · 29-11-2013, 08:29 AM

Since this is a tyre thread, I would like to point that superbike SC2's don't work great when the track temp is over 40. The sucker was sliding all over the place.

**CLIFFY** · 29-11-2013, 08:37 AM

Should've been on 1 yesterday

**Jashdown** · 29-11-2013, 08:59 AM

Yes I should have. The one day I didn't bring the spare sc1 was the day I actually needed it. Will be chucking an SC1 on for the rest of summer.

What about the front? Still use sc1 or switch it to the sc2?

**senator8** · 29-11-2013, 09:12 AM

If its hot enough for a sc1 rear you can probably use a sc0. Info I've been given and experienced myself is more grip and slightly more durable and not quite as sensitive to set up.
With the front. Most the faster riders don't use 1 or 2 due to heat or cold but which they prefer the feel for their set up or for a particular track. The different construction and compound makes them feel a bit different to each other.

**CLIFFY** · 29-11-2013, 09:28 AM

I only run the 2 on the front now
Haven't tried the 0 but aren't they only good for one heat cycle?

**senator8** · 29-11-2013, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by CLIFFY

I only run the 2 on the front now
Haven't tried the 0 but aren't they only good for one heat cycle?

Yeah, I only use sc2 front as well.
The old compound SC0, I heard the same but never used them myself and guys I know that did said it was untrue. (might have been a Dunlop started rumour

) The new compound haven't heard or experienced that, but the grip difference is very noticeable on the big bike off the turns. I doubt I'll buy anymore 1s. Between Sc2 & SC0 covers most for me.

**CLIFFY** · 29-11-2013, 09:52 AM

Have to give the 0 a go then when these are done

**chubb** · 29-11-2013, 10:12 AM

I used a 1 on the front.

Difference between a 1 front and a 2 front?

**Jashdown** · 29-11-2013, 10:15 AM

Cheers for the info. I have a couple of SC1 rears lying around, so I will use them for the rest of summer, and I'll give the two different fronts a go seeing as I have both of them too.

Also with the sc2 rear I used yesterday, the wear was strange, there was very little balling up of the rubber on the edges and the overall surface was fairly smooth, compared to how it was after the St George meet where the rubber balled up a lot and the wear looked good. Was running the same pressure for both of them, 27 psi straight off the track. Would it just be because the track was too hot and it wasn't working?

**senator8** · 29-11-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by chubb

I used a 1 on the front.

Difference between a 1 front and a 2 front?

Subjectively? The 2 feels stiffer, which I prefer. In my imagination anyway. Although, again some much faster than me with data to support feel the same. Some prefer the 1 which feels a little more squashed into the tarmac. Some prefer this planted feeling. To give you and idea, I was hanging out in one of the teams garages at EC and they were swapping between the two tyres to see if the sc1 would ride the bumps a little better. The times were virtually identical, but the rider went back to the sc2 because he preferred it.

Originally Posted by Jashdown

Cheers for the info. I have a couple of SC1 rears lying around, so I will use them for the rest of summer, and I'll give the two different fronts a go seeing as I have both of them too.

Also with the sc2 rear I used yesterday, the wear was strange, there was very little balling up of the rubber on the edges and the overall surface was fairly smooth, compared to how it was after the St George meet where the rubber balled up a lot and the wear looked good. Was running the same pressure for both of them, 27 psi straight off the track. Would it just be because the track was too hot and it wasn't working?

Hard to say Josh. Could have just been the way you were riding or the heat or that the tyre was already worn.

**Negrogrande** · 18-12-2013, 01:34 PM

UK NTECs

where do I get em?

I have frenchies ATM moment but I am near a new set, so looking at getting a set of those.

Cheers,
Andrew

**Mr.Ed** · 18-12-2013, 05:58 PM

UK Ntecs really are as good as ppl say... but the rears require a lot of fine tuning of the suspension/pressures or you'll shred them to bits in 2 sessions or less. For some reason, the front seems to be able to take a lot of abuse. The best/worst part is that it will give you LOADS of grip even when you're destroying the rear tire so not that easy to know when you're on the bike. That means you can go out there, feel great on the bike and when you come back in it looks like Freddie Kruger visited your tire in its sleep. Well, at least that's what I found anyway...

You can get UK Ntecs from heaps of places, even Madaz sells them... prob not cheapest though.

**dan** · 19-12-2013, 09:13 AM

Marshy mentioned Monza Imports the other day for UK Ntecs (I think????). Otherwise direct from Dunlop at ASBK rounds?

**Marshy** · 19-12-2013, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Ed

UK Ntecs really are as good as ppl say... but the rears require a lot of fine tuning of the suspension/pressures or you'll shred them to bits in 2 sessions or less. For some reason, the front seems to be able to take a lot of abuse. The best/worst part is that it will give you LOADS of grip even when you're destroying the rear tire so not that easy to know when you're on the bike. That means you can go out there, feel great on the bike and when you come back in it looks like Freddie Kruger visited your tire in its sleep. Well, at least that's what I found anyway...

Totally agree! I've destroyed a few rears in 5 laps, which really hurts the back pocket!!

Your local bike shop can order them in for you. They are the same price everywhere - the shop pays a high price, so it's best if you have a good relationship with them so they don't shaft you with a hefty margin on top. But assuming they don't, there's no money in it for them, so be nice to them! Castle Hill motorcycles used to get them in and not shaft you on the price.

Or, the best way is to go to a race meet that Dunlop are servicing (FX or ASBK), and buy a trailer load directly from Monza.