How do you ride a bike?

[Ruckos87]

I would have waved.....
Yes!! The handle WAS loose. I was telling Kris and Marshy when I came back!
I saw the crew playing with it before I went out and one of lugs bolts was loose.
They couldn't get it back in but scrutineering deemed it ok to go out...
Evidentally it got worse!!

That's pretty bad. Considering any Joeblow could have done it with no riding experience.
I actually won one as well but couldn't make it down in time ( or the 95 kg pillion weight limit) Damb Easter eggs....

[Turbo]

Got sent this link from fellow TT member, nigelnobody. It's from the ZX10 forum but don't let that put you off :P
Interesting read, if you're killing time on the toilet A bit of insight into becoming a better rider with various people's approach...

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/how-...er-323513.html

[Turbo]

Here's another link for anybody else reading along with this. It comes from a review article on three different capacity of sportsbike and how each approaches going fast...


http://www.sportrider.com/displaceme...awasaki-zx-10r

"The Kawasaki ZX-10R initially jumped to the top of each of our test riders’ top-picks list, its straight-line speed making up for their inability to get aggressive early in the morning and carry midcorner speed, which would prove the secret to quick laps on the 600 and 750.
More than our test riders’ late-bird personalities, what this highlights is the different riding styles necessitated by larger- and smaller-displacement bikes.
Quick—and safe—laps on the 1000 are a matter of rolling the bike through the middle of a corner and then standing it up as soon as possible so that you can get on the gas.
In contrast, the 600 must be ridden aggressively and the throttle opened as quick as possible—as early as before the apex—to carry as much corner speed as you can."

[stevem]

The basic fundamentals are the same, but how fine you apply them allows you to be a better rider.

A better rider is one who can apply the fundamentals when the pace goes up and the risk increases.
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I like this.

[Leezx10r]

That's some good points there. I have been "trying" the firing between corners, point to point.


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[Mr.Ed]

After reading that, maybe swapping for a 250 might not be a bad idea

[Nelso]

After reading that, maybe swapping for a 250 might not be a bad idea

Everyone should learn to ride an underpowered bike fast, before getting on a modern weapon (often with heaps of mods) and relying on the ridiculously good acceleration and braking to get faster without learning to corner fast. That's why 250 production racing back in the 90's was so good for producing so many world class riders.

[zooker]

Everyone should learn to ride an underpowered bike fast, before getting on a modern weapon (often with heaps of mods) and relying on the ridiculously good acceleration and braking to get faster without learning to corner fast. That's why 250 production racing back in the 90's was so good for producing so many world class riders.

That's my motto Good fun punting an old underpowered bike around. Has certainly made me a better rider doing so

[Linden]

Everyone should learn to ride an underpowered bike fast, before getting on a modern weapon (often with heaps of mods) and relying on the ridiculously good acceleration and braking to get faster without learning to corner fast. That's why 250 production racing back in the 90's was so good for producing so many world class riders.

So how long is this supposed to take ... I've been on a lower powered bike for the last 15+ years and still struggle .... maybe it just me :(

[Jashdown]

What does every mean when they say they use the rear brake on exit? Like are you actually opening the throttle while staying on the rear brake? If so, what's the benefit of this? Why can't you just marginally less throttle and control wheel spin in that way?

My biggest trouble with going quick is my entry and exit. I seem to brake way too early into the corners and then find myself coasting to the apex or opening throttle pre-apex, which tends to push me wide on exit. But if I try brake later, obviously I'm needing to trail brake harder and further, but instead I overshoot and run wide. I guess for me I just feel like I have no idea what the front tyre is doing, I'm not sure how much I can actually push the tyre due to my perception that it's like a switch in regards to grip; one second it will be holding, then next second it's gone (like you see in motogp all the time).

How do you guys develope your front end feel and know how hard you can push the front? Is it just trial and error, or is there and actual process to it?

[nigelnobody]

On my 09 gsxr1000 i have taught myself to use the rear in 2 ways.
Mid to tighten the line; then cover the brake when exit to catch any wheelstands(just a dab) or potential highside.
True holding throttle constant if spinning will take care but i prefer to have my foot always in place.
Right handers prove more difficult, have decided to not flip tyre and use extra grip available.
T/c on my Zx10 level(2) takes care of this but depending on gearing is cutting too much h/p.

As for front end feel colder months a sliding front will let go early while in summer there seems to be a lot of warning.
Personal preferance to brand goes a long way to confidance in just trusting the grip will be there.
All part of the fun of learning.

[Marshy]

There's a rear brake?!? I've never been able to find it :(


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[Ruckos87]

Never used it till I had some Training with Alex Cudlin.

Basically he explained it to me like this. (If I recall correctly it was his 4the session drill so I had a bit going on in my head...)

If your on the rear break it will stabilise the bike, and pull u up quicker entering the corner.
if / when you drift wide or go in to hot a little more rear mid turn will tighten up the turn, safely where as front could cause a bigger issue
if your to far gone to make it, at least you'll be slowing as you run off.

As u exit I think it's supposed to keep the front down but I get off it as I get on the gas

I use it now. Effectively ???

Not sure...


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[nigelnobody]

There's a rear brake?!? I've never been able to find it :(


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All joking aside Nick makes a good case for buying an Aprillia.
Smooth v4 pulses with advanced APX electronics would make the rear brake nearly redundant.
Although his avatar shows looping it is very possible.

[stevem]

How do you guys develope your front end feel and know how hard you can push the front? Is it just trial and error, or is there and actual process to it?[/QUOTE]

Providing the bike hasn't got some radical setup I look at who else is using that tyre and going fast and figure the tyre is capable of it so just comes down to rider input and trial and error. There is some sort of a window there so I normally use 1/2 to 3/4of that window and leave the rest as back up to catch any mishap. I was put onto using the rear brake on exit about 6 months ago and wouldn't consider not using it now. The rear brake keeps the front end down and allows more throttle to the point where the net result greater than it would be with less power and no brake.

[Marshy]

Although his avatar shows looping it is very possible.

Ironically that photo was pre-APX. I used to love wheelieing over the hill out of 3 every lap, but now with the (frankly unbelievable) wheelie control of the APX, the one thing I can't do any more is a decent wheelie!!! Dammit. The lord giveth and taketh away....


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[Marshy]

How do you guys develope your front end feel and know how hard you can push the front? Is it just trial and error, or is there and actual process to it?

Front end grip isn't usually like a switch (we aren't at MotoGP lean angles). Think more like Marquez's mini-saves, where he picks it up off his knee, but less extreme. I've picked up dozens of front loses with my knee over the years. This is mostly when you're at the limit of grip and go a fraction beyond. Sometimes you'll get a tiny slide that doesn't need picking up, but you feel it. That's a smaller fraction beyond the limit. Practice, and you'll learn the feeling.

A proper lowside (ie no chance of catching the front) is usually an error of some sort, or pushing way too hard.

By just going a tiny bit harder gradually, you'll get to feeling the feedback from the front. And then as you up the pace, you can pretty much rely on the tyre being able to cope with the same thing again (in the same day/conditions with same tyre wear, not forever under any circumstances). This gets you used to the 'next level' of corner speed. And then you trust it: My best laps have had me thinking "I can't believe the front isn't folding here" on the same turn, lap after lap after lap.



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[chubb]

So good on the 600 vs 1000. Need to be more aggressive riding the 600


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[Jashdown]

Providing the bike hasn't got some radical setup I look at who else is using that tyre and going fast and figure the tyre is capable of it so just comes down to rider input and trial and error. There is some sort of a window there so I normally use 1/2 to 3/4of that window and leave the rest as back up to catch any mishap. I was put onto using the rear brake on exit about 6 months ago and wouldn't consider not using it now. The rear brake keeps the front end down and allows more throttle to the point where the net result greater than it would be with less power and no brake.

Front end grip isn't usually like a switch (we aren't at MotoGP lean angles). Think more like Marquez's mini-saves, where he picks it up off his knee, but less extreme. I've picked up dozens of front loses with my knee over the years. This is mostly when you're at the limit of grip and go a fraction beyond. Sometimes you'll get a tiny slide that doesn't need picking up, but you feel it. That's a smaller fraction beyond the limit. Practice, and you'll learn the feeling.

A proper lowside (ie no chance of catching the front) is usually an error of some sort, or pushing way too hard.

By just going a tiny bit harder gradually, you'll get to feeling the feedback from the front. And then as you up the pace, you can pretty much rely on the tyre being able to cope with the same thing again (in the same day/conditions with same tyre wear, not forever under any circumstances). This gets you used to the 'next level' of corner speed. And then you trust it: My best laps have had me thinking "I can't believe the front isn't folding here" on the same turn, lap after lap after lap.



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Ahh got ya. I guess my small changes don't feel so small on track. I feel like if I jump on the brakes just a meter later than normal into turn 2 for instance, I run extremely wide on entry. But then again, I think I'm only braking at about 70% potential, my stringy little arms and deflated chest aren't capable of dealing with such extreme brake over and over again yet!

Thanks for the input

[Simmo]

How do you guys develope your front end feel and know how hard you can push the front? Is it just trial and error, or is there and actual process to it?

Just read this in Simon Crafers book Motovudu2 and remembered this discussion. Thought it might help.




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[WRCPUG]

Front end grip isn't usually like a switch (we aren't at MotoGP lean angles). Think more like Marquez's mini-saves, where he picks it up off his knee, but less extreme. I've picked up dozens of front loses with my knee over the years. This is mostly when you're at the limit of grip and go a fraction beyond. Sometimes you'll get a tiny slide that doesn't need picking up, but you feel it. That's a smaller fraction beyond the limit. Practice, and you'll learn the feeling.

A proper lowside (ie no chance of catching the front) is usually an error of some sort, or pushing way too hard.

By just going a tiny bit harder gradually, you'll get to feeling the feedback from the front. And then as you up the pace, you can pretty much rely on the tyre being able to cope with the same thing again (in the same day/conditions with same tyre wear, not forever under any circumstances). This gets you used to the 'next level' of corner speed. And then you trust it: My best laps have had me thinking "I can't believe the front isn't folding here" on the same turn, lap after lap after lap.

Great info i'm in the same boat as Jashdown..id love to know how much is too much for the front end. This advice on the fact that the front will give warning before it lets go is great.
Thanks guys great info.