Lap Timers, Data Loggers & Data Overlay

[Simmo]

Aragon went well, we managed to miss almost all of the forecast rain and I managed to go a heap faster than my last visit.



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Looks like an amazing experience.
Fantastic video.
What lap timing device did you use and what software to put the video together with the overlay?

[Turbo]

Looks like an amazing experience.
Fantastic video.
What lap timing device did you use and what software to put the video together with the overlay?

Not sure how often Simon checks TT from Scotland.... As he's my brother, I can answer.
The lap timer is an AIM Solo DL. It logs heaps of data from telemetry to gps position and speed etc. You can export this data to .csv via the AIM software. Being a programmer, Simon wrote his own program to convert this info to a green screen overlay video file that he syncs to The GoPro footage.
Very clever!

[Simmo]

Thanks Sicko.
Very clever indeed.

[Turbo]

Thanks Sicko.
Very clever indeed.

Indeed! There are a couple of paid versions out there that can do similar things.
I know Lawson (Neogrande) uses Racerenderer and it looks tops.
I've also heard Dashware does the same sort of thing and I believe either can import from a variety of data loggers & lap timers.

[Simmo]

Indeed! There are a couple of paid versions out there that can do similar things.
I know Lawson (Neogrande) uses Racerenderer and it looks tops.
I've also heard Dashware does the same sort of thing and I believe either can import from a variety of data loggers & lap timers.

Thanks again.
I was looking at speedangle lap timer.
Do you know if they're any good or have any that you recommend?

[Turbo]

Thanks again.
I was looking at speedangle lap timer.
Do you know if they're any good or have any that you recommend?

Haven't used Speedangle myself, I think Tristan brings them in.
I personally use AIM as well as a few others on here - Stevem, Leezx10r, ironside and Button699 but I've also heard Qstarz and XT (See Marshy) are pretty reliable.
I think as long as you're logging at 10Hz or higher, they're much of a muchness. The only difference perhaps being if the GPS antenna is inside or outside of the timer itself.
I think that'd annoy me but it may well provide more accurate data.

[Simmo]

Haven't used Speedangle myself, I think Tristan brings them in.
I personally use AIM as well as a few others on here - Stevem, Leezx10r, ironside and Button699 but I've also heard Qstarz and XT (See Marshy) are pretty reliable.
I think as long as you're logging at 10Hz or higher, they're much of a muchness. The only difference perhaps being if the GPS antenna is inside or outside of the timer itself.
I think that'd annoy me but it may well provide more accurate data.

Thanks for that.
I'll check those out and have a word with Marshy. Maybe I should see if he'll throw one in with that BMW he is selling!

[ironside]

The Solo DL produces additional data (that's actually not on my Aragon video, that's basically regular Solo data only) such as revs (so you can derive gear) and throttle angle, TC correction etc.
I've tested it with regular Solo, Solo DL + Nemesis TCS (my bike) and Solo DL on an S1000RR successfully, I'm sure many other combinations will work too with a little tweaking.

It's like to be able to be made to work with any laptimer that can produce a CSV file with the data. Send me a file if you'd like me to have a crack at it.
The program just produces a video with the overlay rendered against a green screen. You need to do the green screen overlay in your own video editor along with your video footage.
It's fairly straightforward, lots of free editors do it. I'm a Linux guy and use kdenlive but it's also possible in Windows Movie Maker, iMovie, Adobe Premier etc.

[Simmo]

Thanks ironside.
That's good to know that it can be done. Yours looked like it was straight off the TV coverage.
My to do list...
Step 1: Improve my riding (CSS lv3 and a track day with Alex Cudlin this week).
Step 2: Buy a lap timer / data logger.
Step 3: Make a cool video.

[ironside]

Yours looked like it was straight off the TV coverage.

Cheers!

I think data loggers can help with step 1. If all you do is time with them then they're little more than a measure of something you did differently making things better or making things worse.
If you look at the data, even just comparing with yourself whether from different sessions or different days, you can see what specifically you're doing differently.

Can't go as fast as your last trip? Have a look and see which corners are slower compared to last time. You might be tackling the wrong ones.
How does Marshy do it? Gaffa your logger to his bike or have him email you his data. You can overlay his lap with yours on your laptop and see. Etc.

With the AIM Solo logger and software certainly, you can see and compare everything from how much speed you're carrying, when/where you brake, how hard and for how long to how much track width you're using.

I dunno how Oz track days compare but there's certainly an awful lot of bullshit around UK/Euro days with people saying they're lapping in this time (e.g. your time minus 2 seconds) or doing this speed/line through that corner when they're not; either because they're making it up or what they think they're doing doesn't match what they're actually doing. Data loggers are great for separating fact from fiction, even when you're only analysing yourself.

[Marshy]

Cheers!

I think data loggers can help with step 1. If all you do is time with them then they're little more than a measure of something you did differently making things better or making things worse.
If you look at the data, even just comparing with yourself whether from different sessions or different days, you can see what specifically you're doing differently.

Can't go as fast as your last trip? Have a look and see which corners are slower compared to last time. You might be tackling the wrong ones.
How does Marshy do it? Gaffa your logger to his bike or have him email you his data. You can overlay his lap with yours on your laptop and see. Etc.

With the AIM Solo logger and software certainly, you can see and compare everything from how much speed you're carrying, when/where you brake, how hard and for how long to how much track width you're using.

I dunno how Oz track days compare but there's certainly an awful lot of bullshit around UK/Euro days with people saying they're lapping in this time (e.g. your time minus 2 seconds) or doing this speed/line through that corner when they're not; either because they're making it up or what they think they're doing doesn't match what they're actually doing. Data loggers are great for separating fact from fiction, even when you're only analysing yourself.

Great advice! Anyone is welcome to my data (we should have a thread for sharing lap data).

Data loggers are great for separating fact from fiction.

And are sometimes referred to as lie detectors

[Kris]

Data sharing is a good idea - I still look at Baggers 35 vs my 37 and go 'how does he go through T1 so fast'

I too have an Aim Solo DL

:P

[Turbo]

(we should have a thread for sharing lap data)

Yes, yes we should...

[Turbo]

If you look at the data, even just comparing with yourself whether from different sessions or different days, you can see what specifically you're doing differently.

Yes, I find this really useful too. Racing my ghost! I've even exported single laps to google earth when I've been trying different lines so I can see which are fastest. (thanks for the .csv to .kml help!) caffetine.org/csv2kml/
Setting up sectors is important to do too as some great lines through one sector can slow you down for the next!

[Simmo]

Data sharing is a good idea - I still look at Baggers 35 vs my 37 and go 'how does he go through T1 so fast'

I too have an Aim Solo DL

:P

Kris,
Are you happy with the Aim solo DL?

And thanks to everyone for all the replies and the great advice on here.
Cheers.

[ironside]

Simmo - have you seen the AIM software? If not it's worth having a play before you make up your mind.

It's free to download and I can send you some of my data or I'm sure one of the guys can send you data from a more local track.

Reliability-wise I've never had a problem with the Solo/Solo DL. It's pretty much turn on and forget. It does miss laps occasionally but it's rare overall. Especially compared to a Starlane (purely anecdotal, I've seen a lot of pissed of Starlane owners turn up with an AIM next time)

Cheers,
Simon.

[Simmo]

Simmo - have you seen the AIM software? If not it's worth having a play before you make up your mind.

It's free to download and I can send you some of my data or I'm sure one of the guys can send you data from a more local track.

Reliability-wise I've never had a problem with the Solo/Solo DL. It's pretty much turn on and forget. It does miss laps occasionally but it's rare overall. Especially compared to a Starlane (purely anecdotal, I've seen a lot of pissed of Starlane owners turn up with an AIM next time)

Cheers,
Simon.

I definitely like the idea of set and forget.
Thanks again ironside.

[Marshy]

I absolutely love love love my XT Racing GPX Pro (the first generation version). It's worked flawlessly for many years on many bikes. However, the newer versions have a couple of fatal oversights IMHO. The external antenna is a ball ache, and seems completely unnecessary as the early version with the integrated antenna misses about one lap every year or so, which is a very worthwhile tradeoff. Secondly and most importantly (by a million miles and a complete deal-breaker for me) is that the new ones don't turn on automatically when you switch the ignition on! The old one is really really really 'set and forget', as you can mount it out of the way and never have to touch it except to download data occasionally. Having to power on the new one each session is annoying in the extreme (and the buttons are definitely NOT glove-friendly).

Before I pancaked my Starlane, I quite liked it. Oh, it was fiddly to use, the buttons never worked properly, and the software was.... well.... Italian. But it had bluetooth (this is 10 years ago when almost nothing had bluetooth), which meant downloading data without going near the bike, let alone having to frig around with cables etc. Best. Feature. Ever. I don't understand why the others all STILL don't have this.

For my money, I'd get the Aim, mostly because everyone else has them, and sharing data is easiest.

[Simmo]

I absolutely love love love my XT Racing GPX Pro (the first generation version). It's worked flawlessly for many years on many bikes. However, the newer versions have a couple of fatal oversights IMHO. The external antenna is a ball ache, and seems completely unnecessary as the early version with the integrated antenna misses about one lap every year or so, which is a very worthwhile tradeoff. Secondly and most importantly (by a million miles and a complete deal-breaker for me) is that the new ones don't turn on automatically when you switch the ignition on! The old one is really really really 'set and forget', as you can mount it out of the way and never have to touch it except to download data occasionally. Having to power on the new one each session is annoying in the extreme (and the buttons are definitely NOT glove-friendly).

Before I pancaked my Starlane, I quite liked it. Oh, it was fiddly to use, the buttons never worked properly, and the software was.... well.... Italian. But it had bluetooth (this is 10 years ago when almost nothing had bluetooth), which meant downloading data without going near the bike, let alone having to frig around with cables etc. Best. Feature. Ever. I don't understand why the others all STILL don't have this.

For my money, I'd get the Aim, mostly because everyone else has them, and sharing data is easiest.

Thanks Marshy,
Does the BMW come with one fitted?

[Marshy]

Thanks Marshy,
Does the BMW come with one fitted?

The 2015 has a very very sophisticated one built into the dash, which not only records lap times but also lean angle left and right, braking force, traction control intervention and more. The next step up is the BMW 2D datalogger (I bought one of these too), which logs every bike parameter the ECU reads, along with GPS data and more. Very fancy stuff!

[Kris]

Yep, I love the AIM.

My only wish, was that they incorporated a blue light like on the old Starlane unit - the HOT LAP light

[Turbo]

Oooooh, I like that. I think it'd be useful if it triggered the theme song to Airwolf too, that'd get me over the line!...

[Marshy]

I'd forgotten how good that theme is