St George round 5 & 6 Eastern creek 2/3 November

[Stu23]

Carl is already busy stripping it and mine ! im getting hourly reports :(

[dan]

This photo is pure gold! Although I suspect there's a playboy magazine inside the bike one

That is my version of Playboy #tracklife4life

[Baddie]

Carl is already busy stripping it and mine ! im getting hourly reports :(

I'm not sure what a engine rebuild is worth...Possible this maybe cheaper???

http://www.manheim.com.au/damaged-ve...=SearchResults

[Phat3R]

Chris Baker told me that 2 red flags meant that the race couldn't be restarted again - MA regs. Not sure if that is right though.....

I strongly suspect the 0 points for race three AND 0 for the handicap (same race) have cost me the championship. 50 points lost.

Been searching the MoMS for keywords, searched on 'declare' and found this ... bugger if you lost out on the championship ... I think there were some very tired bodies and minds out there for the last race.

Was the first stoppage after over two laps ... I think it may have been, which would mean the restart distances should have been the balance rather than the original five laps?

15.24.8.6 Where the Steward or Clerk of Course has stopped a race due to danger, the following will apply:
a) If no more than 2 laps of the stopped
race were completed:
i) The stopped race will be
declared null and void,
ii) The race may be re-run,
iii) The re-run race will be for the
full race distance,
iv) The original grid positions will be
used,
v) The place of any machine
unable to take part in the re-run
race will be left vacant,
vi) Machines may be repaired or replaced provided they have been approved by the Scrutineer.

b)If more than 2 laps, but less than 75% of the race distance, have been completed:
i) The race may be re-started, but
only once,
ii) The restart must occur no more
than 30 minutes after the race
has been stopped,
iii) The re-started race distance will
be equal to the balance of the
stopped race distance,
iv) Positions on the grid for the re- started race will be determined
by the order of competitors at the finish line of the last full lap of the stopped race,
v) Only competitors who have completed at least 75% of
the laps completed by the leading competitor at the time
of stopping will be permitted to participate in the re-started race,
vi) Machines may be repaired or replaced provided they have been approved by the Scrutineer,
vii) The stopped race and any re-run will be deemed to be parts of the 1 race,
viii) The winner will be the competitor having the highest number of laps at the finish,
ix) Where 2 or more competitors complete the same number of laps, the winning order will be determined by the time taken by each to complete those laps,
x) If at least 75% of the scheduled race distance is completed, full points will be awarded,
xi) If less than 75% of the scheduled race distance is completed, half points will be awarded.

[BoB]

Worst part is I don't have my lap timer or camera so I can't download the info and review it here in hospital :(

Give me a couple more hours and I will give you something interesting to watch. Just counting up the number of times I catch you running off T11 . I think you made it to 3 for the day , two in front of me and one next to me. (Caught on the rear cam trying to sneak one up the inside).
Rest up and see you at the next st george.

[Marshy]

I'm not sure what a engine rebuild is worth...Possible this maybe cheaper???

http://www.manheim.com.au/damaged-ve...=SearchResults

Hey, that's already going to be mine! No sneaky bidding against me!! If you are really really going to bid on it, let me know so we don't do anything silly.

[chubb]

So Little Mick & Ed, we gonna bash fairings next year??

[Little Mick]

didnt our fairings get bashed enough this year? would rather not have to keep repairing them

[chubb]

Well not bash. Rub maybe.

[Phat3R]

Oh, I won a trophy as well for 2nd place in D Grade clubby coming second only to JC / the grasshopper who is very fast! I had no idea and couldn't believe it. Shame I couldn't back it up today. I think my transition from just being out enjoying it to 'oh shit I'm in the mix wasn't handled very well.

I thought your 7th place for Q6 on Sun was super impressive, a 1:44.3510 on that ancient Suzuki was those tyres/brakes ...

So your Sunday off track excursions due to over cooking corners were more because of lack of brakes or tyre grip? Maybe new tyres for the Feb meet and new rotors / pads can get you and that bike consistent laps?

[Phat3R]

Well not bash. Rub maybe.

Or ... gently caress?

[dan]

I thought your 7th place for Q6 on Sun was super impressive, a 1:44.3510 on that ancient Suzuki was those tyres/brakes ...

So your Sunday off track excursions due to over cooking corners were more because of lack of brakes or tyre grip? Maybe new tyres for the Feb meet and new rotors / pads can get you and that bike consistent laps?

I think I was just pushing too hard for places whereas I should have waited a little while to settle in and then start picking people off. I was coming in way too shallow way too fast trying to get underneath people then didnt have enough room to turn. I honestly think it was just my inexperience showing. The bike was behaving well and I couldn't possibly scapegoat it and keep a straight face. 100% rider error in all cases.

Re: Q6 placing, thanks! She did alright for an old girl on second hand tyres and probably 10 year old fork oil with unknown suspension settings. I'd been hoping to break 1.45s that weekend and did it almost straight away and smashed my old time by over 2 seconds. Amazing what a day of racing does to your confidence. Started seeing the track completely differently and was really getting into corners subconsciously rather than thinking 'i should hang off here'. Was very natural.

Seeing as I'm going to be sidelined for a little bit it'll give me an opportunity to try do some solid work on the bike. As soon as exams as are finished forks are coming off and I'm going over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb. Going to make the fairings a bit prettier as well and find a proper solution to my ram air issue. Lots and lots to do - better hang up my whiteboard! Shame I didn't break my right ankle so I could get back on the bike earlier. No idea how long this is going to take to get track ready.

[Marshy]

probably 10 year old fork oil with unknown suspension settings.

I can help with servicing your suspension.

Shame I didn't break my right ankle so I could get back on the bike earlier.

Yep, the left is a bugger! You don't need the rear brake, but gear changes are unfortunately unavoidable.

[chubb]

Yep, the left is a bugger! You don't need the rear brake, but gear changes are unfortunately unavoidable.

Don't need the left either

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lI25aqS...%3DlI25aqSq-xc

[Marty]

Dan - I'm really sorry to hear about your crash, I didn't realise who it was who went down. My mate was standing on T12 watching me go around and he told me how he saw the crash go down. He reckons there was an incident further up that compressed the field and you got left with nowhere to go and were basically hung out to dry.

[dan]

Yeah it definitely seemed to compress rather quickly but I think I didn't leave myself much room either way. Pity, I was moving through the field rather efficiently considering I'd started in P33. You enjoy your weekend Marty?

[Phat3R]

Been searching the MoMS for keywords, searched on 'declare' and found this ... bugger if you lost out on the championship ... I think there were some very tired bodies and minds out there for the last race.

Was the first stoppage after over two laps ... I think it may have been, which would mean the restart distances should have been the balance rather than the original five laps?

I just watched Rob's video of Dan's HS in Sunday's Race 18 ... I'm sure that two laps had been completed by the leader BEFORE the red flags came out. In which case MoMS 15.24.8.6 b should be in effect, NOT 15.24.8.6 a. The restarted race should not be declared null and void now if stopped, there can only be one restart, which we had, and as less than 75% distance was covered (either singularly or in total) half points should then be awarded. Anyone see any error in my logic or know of supplemental rules for the round that would void 15.24.8.6 b. ???

15.24.8.6
...
b)If more than 2 laps, but less than 75% of the race distance, have been completed:
i) The race may be re-started, but only once,
ii) The restart must occur no more than 30 minutes after the race has been stopped,
iii) The re-started race distance will be equal to the balance of the stopped race distance,
iv) Positions on the grid for the re- started race will be determined by the order of competitors at the finish line of the last full lap of the stopped race,
v) Only competitors who have completed at least 75% of the laps completed by the leading competitor at the time of stopping will be permitted to participate in the re-started race,
vi) Machines may be repaired or replaced provided they have been approved by the Scrutineer,
vii) The stopped race and any re-run will be deemed to be parts of the 1 race,
viii) The winner will be the competitor having the highest number of laps at the finish,
ix) Where 2 or more competitors complete the same number of laps, the winning order will be determined by the time taken by each to complete those laps,
x) If at least 75% of the scheduled race distance is completed, full points will be awarded,
xi) If less than 75% of the scheduled race distance is completed, half points will be awarded.

[dadat178]

Dan - I'm really sorry to hear about your crash, I didn't realise who it was who went down. My mate was standing on T12 watching me go around and he told me how he saw the crash go down. He reckons there was an incident further up that compressed the field and you got left with nowhere to go and were basically hung out to dry.

I don't think that was it, I was the bike in front of Dan when he went down, looks to me like he tried hard to dive under me and it didn't work. Speedy recovery to him. He was riding hard all weekend.

[dan]

I just watched Rob's video of Dan's HS in Sunday's Race 18 ... I'm sure that two laps had been completed by the leader BEFORE the red flags came out. In which case MoMS 15.24.8.6 b should be in effect, NOT 15.24.8.6 a. The restarted race should not be declared null and void now if stopped, there can only be one restart, which we had, and as less than 75% distance was covered (either singularly or in total) half points should then be awarded. Anyone see any error in my logic or know of supplemental rules for the round that would void 15.24.8.6 b. ???

Where is the vid???

[dan]

I don't think that was it, I was the bike in front of Dan when he went down, looks to me like he tried hard to dive under me and it didn't work. Speedy recovery to him. He was riding hard all weekend.

Yeah that is my recollection of events!

[dadat178]

Where is the vid???

http://tarmactalk.com/forum/showthre...=4191#post4191

[Marty]

I don't think that was it, I was the bike in front of Dan when he went down, looks to me like he tried hard to dive under me and it didn't work. Speedy recovery to him. He was riding hard all weekend.

Yes sounds like you are right, the video tells a different story. Must of looked different from the hill. Maybe my mate was talking about bob getting hung out to dry since he ran off the track

[Medic!]

I just watched Rob's video of Dan's HS in Sunday's Race 18 ... I'm sure that two laps had been completed by the leader BEFORE the red flags came out. In which case MoMS 15.24.8.6 b should be in effect, NOT 15.24.8.6 a. The restarted race should not be declared null and void now if stopped, there can only be one restart, which we had, and as less than 75% distance was covered (either singularly or in total) half points should then be awarded. Anyone see any error in my logic or know of supplemental rules for the round that would void 15.24.8.6 b. ???

I was flagging on the sth circuit on Saturday and the last race started just before 5pm. There was doubt at first if it was going ahead when ra e control were informed as long as it started before 5 was ok. After the clean up on last race Sunday it was very close to 5 so maybe that had a bearing on it. Though they did say over the radio it was because of 2 reds

[dan]

Does anyone know the girl who was taking photos at turn 11/12 and where they might be available?

[Tristan]

It was one of the flagies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[James]

So all you first-timers... what did you think?!?

WHAT A BLOODY AWESOME WEEKEND!
I can't even describe how much fun I had!
A great introduction to racing - really impressed at how well organised the event was. I kind of regret not doing this much earlier in my life! Definitely hooked!
There was a few butt clenching moments at the back of the pack, great hussle for the lower rankings....but most of all over the two days my riding and lap times improved a fair wack.
The place had such a good vibe, great bunch of guys and gals racing - thanks to all involved, especially to those flagging and on recovery! Great job.
Cant wait for round 1!

Also, congrats to Dan for making 2nd in Cluby on the Sat and totally writing himself off on the Sunday! Maniac.

[Marshy]

I just watched Rob's video of Dan's HS in Sunday's Race 18 ... I'm sure that two laps had been completed by the leader BEFORE the red flags came out. In which case MoMS 15.24.8.6 b should be in effect, NOT 15.24.8.6 a. The restarted race should not be declared null and void now if stopped, there can only be one restart, which we had, and as less than 75% distance was covered (either singularly or in total) half points should then be awarded. Anyone see any error in my logic or know of supplemental rules for the round that would void 15.24.8.6 b. ???

I've just been looking at the video, and the rules again. It looks like they have applied some rules from part a. and some from part b. We covered 2 full laps - the race was stopped during the third lap - so part a. should apply. ie, the race is re-run. However, there's no 'only one restart' rule in part a. So the race should simply have been restarted again for a third time (the second stoppage was still under part a. also, because it hadn't completed 3 laps either). If they then ran out of time or daylight for a third restart, that's a different matter.

Part b. doesn't apply, because we hadn't completed 3 laps (ie more than 2 laps but less than 75% distance).

Do you agree?

So the only fair thing to do is not count any race 3 results against the overall championship, which is standard procedure if they run out of time to run race 3 events for all classes at a race meet.

As an aside, the results from part 1 of the race seem to have disappeared from NatSoft. Did anyone save a copy?

[Stu23]

do you mean for all race 3 results for all classes Nick...... If so it seems reasonable to me, otherwise we are being penalised , worth bringing up

[Marshy]

do you mean for all race 3 results for all classes Nick...... If so it seems reasonable to me, otherwise we are being penalised , worth bringing up

Yes, that's what's been done before. Points for race 3 for all classes just don't add on to the championship tally. They remain in place for the round results.

[Stu23]

seems reasonable

[Phat3R]

I've just been looking at the video, and the rules again. It looks like they have applied some rules from part a. and some from part b. We covered 2 full laps - the race was stopped during the third lap - so part a. should apply. ie, the race is re-run. However, there's no 'only one restart' rule in part a. So the race should simply have been restarted again for a third time (the second stoppage was still under part a. also, because it hadn't completed 3 laps either). If they then ran out of time or daylight for a third restart, that's a different matter.

Part b. doesn't apply, because we hadn't completed 3 laps (ie more than 2 laps but less than 75% distance).

Do you agree?

So the only fair thing to do is not count any race 3 results against the overall championship, which is standard procedure if they run out of time to run race 3 events for all classes at a race meet.

As an aside, the results from part 1 of the race seem to have disappeared from NatSoft. Did anyone save a copy?

I counted more than 2 laps as being 2.00001 laps ... ie you finish second lap and start the third. I reckon you passed the start / finish to begin third lap before red came out. So I go straight to 15.24.8.6 b. Should get in touch with MA and get clarification on what they mean by more than 2 laps. ???

[Little Mick]

Ask Marquez.....

[Phat3R]

Ask Marquez.....

No point we know he can't count

[Little Mick]

No point we know he can't count

I reckon he may have been schooled effectively a few weeks ago... either way - apply the same interpretation as the officials did... your answer will appear.

[Phat3R]

I reckon he may have been schooled effectively a few weeks ago... either way - apply the same interpretation as the officials did... your answer will appear.

OK, so using the Dorna logic, not sure if this translates to MA, but I'll run with it:

No more than 10 laps on a set of tyres = stop at end of laps 9 or 10.

No more than 2 laps = End of laps 1 or 2

More than 2 laps = Start of lap 3.

???

[Marshy]

Well, Dorna said that 10.9 laps was 'more than 10 laps', hence why Marc got done. Following that logic, 2.4 laps (about where the red came out) is 'more than 2'. But the rule with red flags has always been that it reverts to the end of the last full completed lap (lap 2 in this case, or even arguably lap 1 if the whole field hadn't crossed the finish line for lap 2 before the reds came out - does anyone know whether everyone crossed??). Remember when Jim Richards won Bathurst in Godzilla in the pissing rain after crashing and ripping one of the front wheels off the car?? It reverted back to when he crossed the line, not when he ploughed into the wall.....

[Little Mick]

Well, Dorna said that 10.9 laps was 'more than 10 laps', hence why Marc got done. Following that logic, 2.4 laps (about where the red came out) is 'more than 2'. But the rule with red flags has always been that it reverts to the end of the last full completed lap (lap 2 in this case, or even arguably lap 1 if the whole field hadn't crossed the finish line for lap 2 before the reds came out - does anyone know whether everyone crossed??). Remember when Jim Richards won Bathurst in Godzilla in the pissing rain after crashing and ripping one of the front wheels off the car?? It reverted back to when he crossed the line, not when he ploughed into the wall.....

was my wedding day - 4th Oct 21 years ago....

Alas.. tin tops and and bikes dont always apply similar rules...

I would count the laps based on the lead lap.. ie -if the lap count had started for the leader, then you are on that lap, in this case, Lap 3 (more than 2), regardless if everyone had crossed the line or not.

I know championship is at stake Nick, but would recommend you look at the other classes to see what impact dropping the 3rd heat from everyones championship points would have (I know you probably already have ). Then at least when you query the decision and make a suggestion to drop that round, that comeback can be addressed. In rnd 1, when there was a risk of not getting all the races in, the announcement came over the PA that race 2 would be the HC just in case the last race wasnt held.

I guess most had been run by the time of this incident.

The question is, if the said race was dropped, what would it do to the championship? what are the guidelines for the championship? anything in writing around this?

[Marty]

Remember when Jim Richards won Bathurst in Godzilla in the pissing rain after crashing and ripping one of the front wheels off the car?? It reverted back to when he crossed the line, not when he ploughed into the wall.....

Ahah that's when he called the crowd a pack of bloody arseholes! Out of character for gentleman Jim

[Marshy]

Here it is:

[Nelso]

The ruling is that everyone in the field has to have finished 75% of the race for it to be declared so it didn't matter if Marshy had passed the start line or not.

They can restart a race twice, but they didn't start the race a third time because of time. I went and asked.

[Marshy]

Just out of interest, who did you ask? Because Chris Baker said to me that it couldn't be restarted a third time due to MA rules about no more than 1 restart (which wasn't the right ruling due to not having completed more than 2 laps).

[Medic!]

I think at the creek all racing/practice/track days can start no earlier than 9am and finished by 5pm or very shortly after if started before 5.

[senator8]

Yeah, although drift cars with nothing but turbo dump pipes and top fuel dragsters are ok.

[Phat3R]

Yeah, although drift cars with nothing but turbo dump pipes and top fuel dragsters are ok.

Agreed Rick, I can't work out how they can have noise regs for bikes ... whilst top fuels make so much noise on a run, you can FEEL them 10km away?

[Medic!]

Does ardc control all of this? As you would know from practice days 10 bikes to get a session allocated but 2 cars no prob. Bit of bias!

[Marshy]

Does ardc control all of this? As you would know from practice days 10 bikes to get a session allocated but 2 cars no prob. Bit of bias!

This is most of the problem, yes. However, FX got permission to run bikes after 5pm at the Creek (until 7pm, I think, for their day/night concept that never eventuated), so it's not out of the question. You probably need an additional permit, or something.

[dadat178]

Yeah, although drift cars with nothing but turbo dump pipes and top fuel dragsters are ok.

Dead right, makes no sense. Those drifters going all weekend were pretty bloody irritating. To me that is one of the dumber forms of "Motorsport" but hey each to his or her own.

[Marty]

Dead right, makes no sense. Those drifters going all weekend were pretty bloody irritating. To me that is one of the dumber forms of "Motorsport" but hey each to his or her own.

Don't underestimate how loud the bike track days are. I can walk out of my house 10km away and hear them loud and clear, that's pretty good for road bikes. I guarantee that you won't here those drift cars from even the tip.

Top Fuel and Doorslammer is another story but there's only a few events a year and the noise goes for 4.5-6 secs at a time.

I would be more than happy to baffle the shit out of my bike if it meant more track time.

[Mr.Ed]

Agree, they built a go-kart race track about 6-7K from where I lived and because it was on a valley you could hear them going all day long... bikes can get pretty loud (ask Little Mick! hahaha) but then again, what's the difference between 5 and 7pm anyway?? Maybe during the week it can bother whoever walks their dog around the tip but on a weekend you'd expect a bit of noise, no?

[Nelso]

Just out of interest, who did you ask? Because Chris Baker said to me that it couldn't be restarted a third time due to MA rules about no more than 1 restart (which wasn't the right ruling due to not having completed more than 2 laps).

The big loud guy from ARDC and Jan. He said you can only restart a race twice, but there wasn't enough time to do it and be finished by 5pm.