St George MCC

[chubb]

They are finally seeing some sense.

"All machines will have their radiator fluid physically tested. Machines must be presented to scrutineering with their radiator cap OFF for fluid testing or they will immediately be sent to the back of the queue.
Water is the ONLY acceptable fluid. If any bike is found to be non-compliant at scrutineering they will be given once chance to become compliant. Following this, at ANY stage of the meeting, if a bike is found to be non-compliant then the rider will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. There are absolutely no exceptions."

25
D–GRADE RIDERS
25.1All D- grade riders, without exception, are required to wear a vest over their leathers as supplied by the Race Secretary. The vest supplied will be signed out with the allocation of the transponder and must be returned with the transponder at the conclusion of the event.
25.2 Should a D - grade rider enter the track at any time without the supplied vest being worn then they will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. This includes ALL track activity; practice, qualifying and racing.
25.3 See point 16.4 for additional requirement regarding the D - grade Rider Briefing.

10.2.6 Each competitor must supply at least ONE Race Official / Flag Marshal / Recovery Marshal or Office Assistant for one FULL day at any one of the rounds to be eligible for the Series Prizes.
These must not be existing members of the St George MCC Management Committee.


Good to see that they are trying to make things safer for riders around after the November fiasco.... Still always short on flaggies etc... should just pay them..

[Phat3R]

Was there a problem with radiator fluid spills at last meet?

D graders & vests sounds like very sensible, certainly a good reason to want to get the fark out of D grade. But will it make it easier to spot parked bikes further up the grid when the lights go out? ;)

Yes pay the damn flaggies, the SMSP contract requires them to pay tens of thousands for the hundreds of security staff.

[Turbo]

They are finally seeing some sense.
D–GRADE RIDERS
25.1All D- grade riders, without exception, are required to wear a vest over their leathers as supplied by the Race Secretary. The vest supplied will be signed out with the allocation of the transponder and must be returned with the transponder at the conclusion of the event.
25.2 Should a D - grade rider enter the track at any time without the supplied vest being worn then they will immediately be disqualified from the meeting without a refund. This includes ALL track activity; practice, qualifying and racing.
25.3 See point 16.4 for additional requirement regarding the D - grade Rider Briefing


Good to see that they are trying to make things safer for riders around after the November fiasco.... Still always short on flaggies etc... should just pay them..

I'm all for a revision of the rules but I'm not sure a bright vest would have helped me or anybody involved with my incident...
50 bikes is too many for such a short course and the grid spacing, I think, is too close.
What if rookies started from the back of the grid for a period of time??

[Mr.Ed]

I don't think a grid of 20 bikes would have helped you much, mate... it's not like the guy that hit you wasn't 4 rows back.

Also, I do like the idea of the vest too. Yes, it means that if I ever race again (this one is for you wetty) I'll have to wear it but it's only fair and I reckon it will not only make it safer but also weed out some of the trophy chasers.

And seriously, the entry fee is like what these days? 500?? Add another $10 per rider and get rid of the stupid "you must supply a flaggie" idea... it's not like they can't claim those expenses on tax either.

[senator8]

Personally I think it's a disappointing reflection on the entrants that all bikes must be tested. A typical scenario of all being punished for a few.
Both of my bikes means complete fairing removal.

[chubb]

Almost becoming as expensive as a FX round.

And Rick I think it's complete top and bottom removal for most bikes.

[Linden]

Run air cooled ... problem solved ...

[Marshy]

I think there should be a RST (random scrutineering testing) queue, like RBT by the cops. Two rows of normal scrut, and one where bikes in the queue get pulled aside and everything gets properly checked. And throughout the weekend, random inspections in the garages to ensure ongoing compliance. My view is that coolant isn't a particular problem, but that ensuring oil is kept in the engine (or, failing that, in the bellypan) is vastly more important but never properly checked. There are unfortunately too many crashes on people's oil, which should almost never happen. Whereas I can't ever recall coolant causing any issues to anyone.

I also think there's simply no way that people (volunteers!) can realistically check 200+ bikes, and all the gear, in an hour, whilst actually doing a proper job. Either start earlier, finish later, or - my strong recommendation - do most of it on Friday arvo!!

[WETTY]

Finally the flaggie rule is correct, having Jan or anybody else in the tower down as your supplied flaggie was a farkin farce, in 2011 i supplied 2 flaggies at every round bar the 4 hr or 5 or whatever it was , but then you did get 10 points per flaggie , Thats how it should go back to ,!!!!!!! sorry Ed if you have no friends

[WETTY]

I think there should be a RST (random scrutineering testing) queue, like RBT by the cops. Two rows of normal scrut, and one where bikes in the queue get pulled aside and everything gets properly checked. And throughout the weekend, random inspections in the garages to ensure ongoing compliance. My view is that coolant isn't a particular problem, but that ensuring oil is kept in the engine (or, failing that, in the bellypan) is vastly more important but never properly checked. There are unfortunately too many crashes on people's oil, which should almost never happen. Whereas I can't ever recall coolant causing any issues to anyone.

I also think there's simply no way that people (volunteers!) can realistically check 200+ bikes, and all the gear, in an hour, whilst actually doing a proper job. Either start earlier, finish later, or - my strong recommendation - do most of it on Friday arvo!!

Holy shit , its only taken how many years but most of that i harped on yrs ago and ever since

[Marshy]

Holy shit , its only taken how many years but most of that i harped on yrs ago and ever since

Me too. But nobody's listening!

http://www.inedc.com/sites/default/files/slider-image/traditionshirt-shirt.gif

[Leezx10r]

I think it all sounds good to me.
Coolant
Vest
Flags

With the vests will make it easier to workout who to chase & how good / bad am doing lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Turbo]

I don't think a grid of 20 bikes would have helped you much, mate... it's not like the guy that hit you wasn't 4 rows back.

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No big deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

[Nelso]

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No bid deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

He was next to me on row 7.

[WETTY]

He was next to me on row 7.

were you upstairs in the cafe instead of qualifying ?

[Marshy]

Not sure I agree with you there. Yes he was further back, but had riders in front had more space and time to react, his view of me wouldn't have been obscured.
Also, if the grid was more spaced out, qualifying well would make a big difference to the race start.

Totally agree about paying flaggies tho. No bid deal to charge it on to the riders. We all really appreciate what they do.

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

[WETTY]

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.
fark imagine starting from the rear if 1 had a problem the race earlier .

i have come to grid up at the BSFOS , usually always last coming off T12 (so my girl sits on the grid as little as possible) and i have had to pull up at grid spot 38/42 or whatever which is a car spot to get the newbies to roll down the hill into the bike grids , the car grids finish up near the flaggie , i had a chuckle , and no it wasnt Rick ;) .

maybe if when we launch we look ahead till T1 and shift by feel not looking at the Tacho for the 1st 3 gear changes people. i see it all the time and i would be my fibro thats what happened

[Mr.Ed]

! sorry Ed if you have no friends

I must have supplied 10+ flaggies over the years... I even flagged in 2 complete weekends. But IMHO, unless you really like bikes, it's not exactly an enjoyable experience. Well, I like bikes and didn't find it exactly exciting after the first day... I can only imagine what someone who has no idea of what is going on thinks.

Plus, didn't someone say "racing is expensive and if you have no money bla bla bla bla"??

[Marshy]

I must have supplied 10+ flaggies over the years... I even flagged in 2 complete weekends. But IMHO, unless you really like bikes, it's not exactly an enjoyable experience. Well, I like bikes and didn't find it exactly exciting after the first day... I can only imagine what someone who has no idea of what is going on thinks.

Plus, didn't someone say "racing is expensive and if you have no money bla bla bla bla"??

Agree Ed. I love bikes, but I still don't want to sit at a flag point for 2 days in the sun/rain/heat/cold etc. I totally love that people do, as it allows us all to go racing, but I still strongly think we should pay them for doing it! $100 cash, or $150 cash, whatever, for a day. It's not much of an hourly rate, but at least it's recognition of their effort. It would add $5 or $10 to each rider's entry fee... ie ONE OR TWO PERCENT!!! It's a no-brainer.

[WETTY]

If they can pay the flaggies at the gokart meetings they can pay them at the bikes

[Metal-Man]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

[chubb]

And what... Have even longer delays if all the D graders are numpties?

[dan]

Couldn't agree more! I reckon the grid should be capped at 40. 3 bikes to a row, and each row about three times further apart than currently. Looking down on the grid, the actual physical distance between 1st and 50th is, like, 20 metres, with 50 bikes in between. It's MASSIVELY too consolidated into too-small a space. Look at motoGP (and I know their spacing is more about making the grid look artificially fuller) but the spacing is very considerable, which is great for safety.

Devils advocate here but why 40? Bigger spacing might help with start line incidents but I don't know capping grids is the answer. Big grids make the first lap pretty... interesting but after that things break into groups and everyone has their little battles. Does 50 really make a difference to 40?

How do you work it out? First in? Qualifying? Preference to StG members?

[Mr.Ed]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

Cant say I agree with that either... 1st of all 'cause of how ppl are graded (can of worms so let's stay out of it for now) also because as a D grader the thing you need the most is a faster rider to chase. And that rider sometimes is a C grader, sometimes is a B grader (if you're a fast D grader) and etc.

The only negative side I can think of re the whole D grade rule is the odd muppet A/B/C riders who has a chip on his/her shoulder and act up when overtaken by a rider wearing the vest. But then again, said muppet rider would probably take offense on anyone overtaking him/her anyway...

[WETTY]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

think you need to to do the sums on how many A/B grade riders are in the race , There isnt enuf to financially make it economically viable in this economic climate

[Mr.Ed]

Devils advocate here but why 40? Bigger spacing might help with start line incidents but I don't know capping grids is the answer. Big grids make the first lap pretty... interesting but after that things break into groups and everyone has their little battles. Does 50 really make a difference to 40?

How do you work it out? First in? Qualifying? Preference to StG members?

I've started from the back of grid and from the middle (sadly never close to the front other than RYM) and to me 10 less or 10 more wouldn't make that much of difference tbh... the spacing yes. That can actually change things as it would make it harder for ppl from other rows to catch up and overtake during the start. But it would also allow riders from further back to gather even more momentum before getting to T1 in comparison the riders who started at the front... so there's that.

[dan]

think you need to to do the sums on how many A/B grade riders are in the race , There isnt enuf to financially make it economically viable in this economic climate

Exactly. C and D are the people filling the grids. Maybe more penalties for unsporting / dangerous riding will get people to smarten up. That's the real issue, right?

[dan]

I've started from the back of grid and from the middle (sadly never close to the front other than RYM) and to me 10 less or 10 more wouldn't make that much of difference tbh... the spacing yes. That can actually change things as it would make it harder for ppl from other rows to catch up and overtake during the start. But it would also allow riders from further back to gather even more momentum before getting to T1 in comparison the riders who started at the front... so there's that.

They should probably back off if they are coming in too hot like you would at any other corner during any other time of the race. If riders don't and it compromises safety black flag them.

[Condor]

I would like to see a couple spare flags at the start line so riders can volunteer in between races to watch and flag any mishaps from race start.
I would be more then happy to do a few for everyones safety in between my races.

[Mr.Ed]

They should probably back off if they are coming in too hot like you would at any other corner during any other time of the race. If riders don't and it compromises safety black flag them.

Agree 100% but if everyone did what they should we wouldn't even need flaggies

[Carl-52]

ill be wearing a vest for next year... will be great for practice and qualifying so the faster guys have the ability to see newbies even earlier and seeing who i have to beat in the D grade race. Apart from that it wont really make a difference. Maybe 3 to a row on the start would help, but capping bikes on track wont do anything.

[Mr.Ed]

You just want it for the fluoro... hahaha

[Carl-52]

i already asked the question and it is NOT available in fluro yellow :(

[Nelso]

were you upstairs in the cafe instead of qualifying ?

I was on the Premodern GSXR750 that still needs a bit of tweaking. It was VERY interesting being that far back on the grid! and by interesting, I mean scary as fuck!

[Nelso]

maybe if when we launch we look ahead till T1 and shift by feel not looking at the Tacho for the 1st 3 gear changes people. i see it all the time and i would be my fibro thats what happened

This!

What I witness back in the field were people riding with blinkers on all race with no awareness of what was going on around or ahead of them.

[Linden]

ill be wearing a vest for next year... will be great for practice and qualifying so the faster guys have the ability to see newbies even earlier and seeing who i have to beat in the D grade race. Apart from that it wont really make a difference. Maybe 3 to a row on the start would help, but capping bikes on track wont do anything.

You'll be getting a letter in a couple of weeks I'd be guessing

[Linden]

As the guy who has started at the back of more grids than most of you put together ... 3 per row and more spacing will just mean more SPEED by the time you get to the 1st row (maybe we should go old school 6-8 on the front row and next row 1 meter behind) ...

Flaggies by the side of the grid will NOT help anybody ... that not where anybody should be looking and would be an insurance nightmare + reaction time of the flaggie ... it would be all over before the flag moved

Wetty is right (did I say that) heads up and don't try and win off the start line (but the people at the back are NORMALLY new to this) the Nov weekend was not all newbie crashes eg Gary P (is not a learner) and I doubt that Orange vest would have helped in anyway (anyone know if this was a StG idea or one pushed on them)

Maybe TECHNOLOGY - pit limiter with GPS and some software ... back rows limiter comes on UNTIL they pass a slow / stalled bike or the 10M pasted row 1 - lets see PCRA implement that

[Linden]

D graders should only be racing against D graders ... thats why they have levels at SMP ride days etc.
Or, split D & C graders into their own races .. along with A & B graders ... either way something has to change for the better of al involved.

Beau Beatson won (or podium) his first ever race .. against A/B/C graders

I'm C but slower than most D (E) graders

[Kimbo]

Vests are a waste of time, and in some situations can be dangerous. I flagged on the saturday in the heat. I got an esky with food and drink, so I was happy. Panigales have a problem as you cant see their sump plug with the exhaust on. In Victoria , you sign a stat dec. Also if the rules say no coolant, you dont have any trace of coolant. That crash on the line showed two had coolant , and last years big BEARS crash showed coolant being used as well. Hey Linden , how about removing that last line.

[dan]

Re: vests. Is that so the flaggies know who is D grade or the other [higher grade] riders? If you are behind a dude in the vest maybe you should be wearing one too...

I'd be worried about the vest getting caught on the bike if someone went down. Has that been discussed?

I don't have any problem per se with D graders being able to be spotted but I remain unclear on what this solves?

[chubb]

To hopefully get A/B/C graders to give them a little more room while overtaking etc during qually so it's not a mess?

Qually is always a mess with STG. People dawdling around on the track sometimes and 8mins gives you 3 flying laps if you're quick.

[dan]

Stat dec for no coolant is a great idea btw. Ban the rider for a year if they are found to have coolant. Everyone knows that rule there are no excuses.

[dan]

To hopefully get A/B/C graders to give them a little more room while overtaking etc during qually so it's not a mess?

Qually is always a mess with STG. People dawdling around on the track sometimes and 8mins gives you 3 flying laps if you're quick.

Practically, does that really make any difference? You can tell by how quickly you are coming down on someone whether you need to make a little more allowance than usual.

[Kimbo]

In a 5 or 6 lap race the top guys dont lap any c or d graders on the big tracks , maybe Broadford or Morgan Park they would

[Mr.Ed]

Practically, does that really make any difference? You can tell by how quickly you are coming down on someone whether you need to make a little more allowance than usual.

Yes, what you don't know is the likelihood of that 'someone' changing lines or braking early. We have to keep in mind that a lot of D graders are ppl racing for the first time... and a lot of first timers haven't even done a track day in the red group before they race!!

[dan]

Yes, what you don't know is the likelihood of that 'someone' changing lines or braking early. We have to keep in mind that a lot of D graders are ppl racing for the first time... and a lot of first timers haven't even done a track day in the red group before they race!!

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

[dan]

If you fast lap gets messed up that sucks but it's racing. If someone is dawdling and causing a safety concern black flag them.

[Mr.Ed]

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

It's not meant to be a game changer... it's just something to both help riders identify a potential risk (i.e. newbie rider braking too early/hard/at all into T1) and to somewhat protect new riders against their own mistakes. It's the same as a P plate. Of course it doesn't change anything by just having it there but when I see one trying to zoom in between traffic I keep my distance.

[chubb]

There is a reason why the have vest for newbies in the states and in the UK

[dan]

It's not meant to be a game changer... it's just something to both help riders identify a potential risk (i.e. newbie rider braking too early/hard/at all into T1) and to somewhat protect new riders against their own mistakes. It's the same as a P plate. Of course it doesn't change anything by just having it there but when I see one trying to zoom in between traffic I keep my distance.

So this is just a qualifying issue then?

I think that a vest is potentially dangerous and I don't find any of these arguments convincing enough to render the safety concern of vests getting caught on bikes when they go down.

For racing I'm not sure how it's a relevant issue. I'm happy to be convinced though.

[Phat3R]

In WA you have to attend coaching ride days and be accessed to be able to apply to MWA to get your license ... Riders wear vests for both the coaching and as D Graders. Seems sensible to me.


To be eligible to compete riders must participate at RidedaysWA Coaching Courses where they will be assessed by an accreditated coach and once approved can apply through MWA (Motorcycling WA) for a Competition License.

http://mcrcwa.com.au/Competition/road-racing-classes.html

Rancell would you mind posting up the URL you are quoting from?

[dan]

Some kind of assessment/ explanation of race craft before getting a licence makes complete sense. Tough to implement but worth thinking about (I assume someone has thought about it already?)

What I'd like to know is what is the official reason for the vests? Could any of the incidents at last StG round be avoided with vests? Could any incidents people have seen been avoided with vests?

[Mr.Ed]

Well, the thing is, there are a ton of different scenarios and I haven't even imagine 1/10 of them. But just off the top of head:

Faster riders starting from the back of the grid due to:

-missing or crashing during qually, bad setup, bike issues, intermittent rain, etc;
-Qually time reduced due to time constraint caused by another crash or crashes in previous sessions;
-Missing formation lap

Those are all real life scenarios and not that uncommon as I, in my very limited experience, have seen just about every single one of those play out at some stage.

I do agree that there's the risk of the vest getting caught on the bike though...

[chubb]

In WA you have to attend coaching ride days and be accessed to be able to apply to MWA to get your license ... Riders wear vests for both the coaching and as D Graders. Seems sensible to me.



http://mcrcwa.com.au/Competition/road-racing-classes.html

Rancell would you mind posting up the URL you are quoting from?

its on the St George Sup regs for the first SMP round..

[Little Mick]

If the vests were really a hazard, simply make them with a rip zone/ velcro so they separate from rider if caught...

Vests are an aid.. not a black and white solution... they identify a potentially inexperienced racer so that others can:

a - be mindful that their response to "agressive" overtakes or close racing could have an adverse outcome
b - be aware that lines taken may not be ideal/ consistent
c - be aware that they may brake early
d - be aware that they may stall off the line
e - be aware that they may wheelie off the line
f - all of the above...

This doesn not presume that a non vested rider won't do all or any of the above, but there is a higher likelihood that something like this will happen to a begginer/ novice/ D grader...

I have been guilty of all but the stalling off the line... (so far) shit happens... an aid helps to reduce (but wont eliminate) the risk... would be interested in any references where vests have created a hazard/ caught up in a bike/ etc??

[Little Mick]

its on the St George Sup regs for the first SMP round..

I think he meant the US/ UK reference

Stu should be able to confirm it.. Im sure I have read it previously as well

[Saturnalian]

I've been watching, reading and listening to all of the commentary regarding the last St George round for 2014 on this site, in the pits, on social media and in general conversation both during and ever since the meet.

The opinions of course are varied, what is written here will simply be mine.

There was a lot of frustration. There has been some well thought out and considered points but a lot of the statements made have been so broad and sweeping as to be purely insulting. But its easy to do that by picking a group and crucifying them together. Thats the way society gets off on itself nowadays, puffs up its collective pigeon chest and points its claw at the easiest target.

What was the problem ? The problem seems to be a very high number of dangerous and inconsiderate moves made on track by other riders in a club racing scenario.

Note that i didn’t say slow riders, or mid pack riders, or D graders or inexperienced riders. For the most part I don’t know who they were, where they were, what they are, their grade etc. But the majority of commentary or opinions that i’ve read over the last month have been expressed with some form of classification attached. Put simply, there are a bunch of fuckwit’s on track that are making us feel uncomfortable. In the dissection of the event many seemed to very quickly turn it into a who can we tell to fix this, who can we collectively blame for allowing this to happen, or the enduring favourite of a faceless society, someone should put a system in place to repair this….

Let me backtrack a bit. How did we end up with this problem in the first place ?

There are fuck all racetracks in NSW. There is very little road racing in NSW. There are very few road race motorcycle clubs in NSW. The busiest circuit in NSW is SMP and there is a ride day monopoly in place there that makes track days fucking expensive. Everyone is told that ARDC days and racing are better value for money than track days and it seems so much more accessible, so few rules. You are not treated like an infant like you are at SMP Ride days, after having handed over your money. The SMP Ride day model is expectant on first timer turnover and you are treated accordingly. People move to ARDC days for the value for money, the freedom to ride and improve without being chastised. They need to get their race licence to do that. Its simple, its just another form, a written test and a fee.

This new found freedom we all have. Find the easiest way to do whatever we want with the least amount of red tape, minimal conflict, remaining completely faceless and blameless. Not a care in the world until something goes wrong, and then we can gather and accuse.

I don’t think you can blame St George for how their race meet went. I don’t think you can demand that they do something about it. I don’t think you can complain that they’re not doing enough to enforce things. I think you’re wasting your fucking time with all of your complaints if you’ve been affected by a situation and not done something about it. Particularly when you have all of the systems in place to do something about it.

I choose to live with a culture of responsibility rather than exist in a culture of blame.

When you get your race licence there is a big book full of rules that comes with it. You may have had to read a couple of pages of it to get your licence. There are an awful lot of rules in that book that relate to exactly what you should do at a race meet if there is a problem with the meet. When you enter a race meet there are a lot of rules on the entry form. You sign a declaration agreeing to those rules. When you’re at a race meet there is a riders briefing. In that briefing you are reminded of what is in the big book of rules, in particular about what you should do if you have any problem with the race meet. They introduce you to the appropriate people that you should speak to if there is a problem and you sign a form stating that you attended and listened to that briefing.


At every one of those steps you are expected to behave like a responsible individual adult and recognise that you are signing an agreement to do your part in making things go as smoothly as possible by followings the rules. This includes notifying the officials if one of the fuckwits out there makes you feel uncomfortable. Look at how much shit is going on at race meet manned by volunteers, how are they expected to know anything thats going on in your head without you making it known properly and effectively. By the way, if you can’t work out which fuckwit it was on track that was causing you so much pain and suffering, maybe you’re not riding within your limits either.

Lets face it, most of the people who put together these club meets for us are doing it for free. The only one who gets paid at the meet is the guy who enforces the rules. All of the money we give to MA for our licence every year. We know they’re not spending it improving the sport for us, we know they’re not creating an awesome State or National Championship series for us. They’re sitting around making up rules and enforcing them. It is our responsibility to act within the rules at each and every step of the way to improve our sport.

If thats not enough for you, if you don’t like the rules, be a voice with a face and not a mumble or a whisper.

I think the vests for D graders are a good idea. in NSW a D grade is a novice rider. After their first year of racing if they do a couple of meets they will become a C grader. I think its important for the novice racers to know that they are being viewed as a novice in the hope that it makes them assume some responsibility for all of the rules they have agreed to abide by every time they’ve signed something.

Now, back to Katy Perry…..

[dan]

Well said

[Phat3R]

its on the St George Sup regs for the first SMP round..

Ta ... found it ... wanted to see what 16.4 was ... http://www.stgeorgemcc.com/pg_roadracepdf.php?id=u2y2w2


16.4 There will be an ADDITIONAL briefing for ALL D - Grade riders immediately following the main Rider Briefing. Attendance for all D - Graders at this additional briefing is COMPULSORY.

[Phat3R]

You have to wear almost all your gear to scruitineering too.



13.4All riders MUST WEAR leathers, boots and back protectors to scrutineering as well as presenting helmet and gloves. Riders not wearing these items will be moved to the back of the queue.
13.5 Random spot checks will be performed by Scrutineers throughout the meeting and any bike found to be non - compliant will be disqualified from the meeting without a refund

[Phat3R]

Now, back to Katy Perry…..

I'd swear you were a Taylor Swift fan! ;)

[James_]

Totally agree with Mick's points and Jamie's words.

I don't think anyone can link any decision by st george (or any other club) to a particular incident at a particular race meet. Surely any decision/rule change is cumulative thing?
Not that I have vast amounts of racing under my belt but almost every race meet I've done there is (unfortunately) a chopper at some point. There has and always will be incidents at a race track, this is why "motorsport is dangerous and can result in injury or death" is plastered on every form you sign.

To me it seems st g have asked themselves how can they make racing at their club safer overall, and quite possibly noticing how other clubs do it in other parts of the world and adopting/trialing those methods ie, vest. With so many variables to the cause of dangerous racing incidents, what is a club to do? Whats "right" and "wrong" is trivial until it's too late. Common sense and respect for EVERYONE is a good start, and I think vests on rookies is a good platform for people (rookies included) to choose if they want to respect others or not.

When I found out about the vest rule for rookies (D grades) over here in the UK initially I thought it to be unnecessary, however I really like the idea now. Especially after watching some mixed grade race vids.

Grading, skill level and how quick one's bike is are all very different issues that seem to be rolled into one issue.

2 cents.

[Linden]

In a 5 or 6 lap race the top guys dont lap any c or d graders on the big tracks , maybe Broadford or Morgan Park they would

And those that do can do it easily ... A Graders

[Nelso]

And if everyone went out one at a time in qualifying there wouldn't be a problem at all!

If you are catching someone quick assume they aren't as fast, make whatever assumptions you need to make and adjust your decisions accordingly. You should be doing this already don't see what difference a vest makes.

There will always be a problem in qualifying due to the vast differences in speeds. At least the vest will identify the person from a distance so you can plan your move to get past them cleanly. There are a lot of slower riders that have plenty of experience that hold their lines, don't brake mid corner etc. so don't really get in your way, it's the unpredictable ones that make it dangerous.

I think the vests for D graders are a great idea. One, it will help others to identify the less experienced riders and two, it will stop the trophy hunters from wanting to stay in D grade so they can be the fast fish in the slow pond.

I say well done to St George for being proactive and attempting to address any issues that have been raised by riders and for trying to make things safer. I'm not a big fan of adding extra rules and I would much rather riders be more responsible and accountable for their actions, but I think what they have put in place is fair and appropriate considering so many riders are being irresponsible.

[Leezx10r]

There will always be a problem in qualifying due to the vast differences in speeds. At least the vest will identify the person from a distance so you can plan your move to get past them cleanly. There are a lot of slower riders that have plenty of experience that hold their lines, don't brake mid corner etc. so don't really get in your way, it's the unpredictable ones that make it dangerous.

I think the vests for D graders are a great idea. One, it will help others to identify the less experienced riders and two, it will stop the trophy hunters from wanting to stay in D grade so they can be the fast fish in the slow pond.

I say well done to St George for being proactive and attempting to address any issues that have been raised by riders and for trying to make things safer. I'm not a big fan of adding extra rules and I would much rather riders be more responsible and accountable for their actions, but I think what they have put in place is fair and appropriate considering so many riders are being irresponsible.

I agree, regardless of what rules changes are put forward, people will always have a grumble. But IMO I think Saint George have made a good move for 2015



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Negrogrande]

I like the vest rule, not too sure about wearing all of your gear through scrutineering though

[dan]

What's wrong with wearing your gear to scrutineering?

[johnnyb]

There seems to be a lot of mention of D graders in this thread. From my position racing in Nov I wouldn't be putting the majority of the blame on the novice riders.

Moving to C, B and A doesn't suddenly make you to a competent, courteous, safe and risk free rider. It does seem to allow some to have a right to carve slow guys up and blame them that their not riding the perfect line.

Every person from A to the D graders have the same equal right to be on the track as long as their respecting the rules. Lap times, what you have done in the past and ego does not give anyone more right to be there than the guy starting out.

[Marshy]

It does seem to allow some to have a right to carve slow guys up and blame them that their not riding the perfect line.

Those benefits are listed in the info letter from MNSW when you get graded up. They also include the right to wheelie, to not remove your bellypan for scrutineering, to be a complete dickhead while riding in the pits, to wear open-toed shoes in pit lane, and the morning riders briefing becomes completely optional. Did you not get the same notice, John?

[Marshy]

What's wrong with wearing your gear to scrutineering?

It means you've gotta get all kitted out at 7am, then take it all off again until 9am. Not the end of the world, but it does make the $99 I recently spent on a gear bag with wheels a bit of a waste :rofl:

[dan]

Maybe d graders should have mirrors and break lights so they can see if a quick guy is coming up behind them and they can pull off track and the quick guys can see when they brake at the start finish line for t1?????

[dan]

It means you've gotta get all kitted out at 7am, then take it all off again until 9am. Not the end of the world, but it does make the $99 I recently spent on a gear bag with wheels a bit of a waste :rofl:

Haha #trackbag

[Turbo]

Those benefits are listed in the info letter from MNSW when you get graded up. They also include the right to wheelie, to not remove your bellypan for scrutineering, to be a complete dickhead while riding in the pits, to wear open-toed shoes in pit lane, and the morning riders briefing becomes completely optional. Did you not get the same notice, John?
Hahahahahahaha ^^^ this!

[Button699]

Yea I'm a d grader... And I qualified 16th of 39 on the Sunday at the last st George meet... Not a too bad effort I thought! Although on one of my qual laps I did get absolutely carved up by a faster guy on an 1199 with twin pipes on the outside into nine... Sorted pissed me off cause I was forced to sit and and get on my front brakes hard as and would of missed his rear tyre by about 1/4 of an inch I'd say... Very bold move to say the least ... Mayb if I was wearing a vest he may not have tried it ... Mayb he still would... I think when ur out there and u wanna go fast .. No one will give two shits about a slower guy in a vest... It would just give faster riders even more reason to lay the blame on the slower

[chubb]

Maybe d graders should have mirrors and break lights so they can see if a quick guy is coming up behind them and they can pull off track and the quick guys can see when they brake at the start finish line for t1?????

Badddd idea. Even makes them more unpredictable because they are also concentrating to get out of the way of the faster riders

[Turbo]

Badddd idea. Even makes them more unpredictable because they are also concentrating to get out of the way of the faster riders
Think he might be joking there...
We could have indicatirs tho, just to prove we know what way the course is going :P

[Turbo]

There seems to be a lot of mention of D graders in this thread. From my position racing in Nov I wouldn't be putting the majority of the blame on the novice riders.

Moving to C, B and A doesn't suddenly make you to a competent, courteous, safe and risk free rider. It does seem to allow some to have a right to carve slow guys up and blame them that their not riding the perfect line.

Every person from A to the D graders have the same equal right to be on the track as long as their respecting the rules. Lap times, what you have done in the past and ego does not give anyone more right to be there than the guy starting out.

Totally agree, all D-grade riders are not lapping really slow and unpredictable lines!
Our lap times decide who we're racing against anyhow. It's racing and we're all there to go fast.
I've no idea what specific problem is being targeted by wearing a vest.
It seems a little knee-jerk, like a 'Baby-on-board' sticker on your car.
....Oh, well I was going to run you off the road but now I've seen your sticker, I won't!!
How about just don't be cunt on track, whatever grade anybody is in?

[Mr.Ed]

like a 'Baby-on-board' sticker on your car.



Even though I agreed with Nelso's post to the power of max, I despise the baby on board sticker so now I'm torn...

[Little Mick]

I really don't see why any d grader should be up in arms... its not about lap times its about experience ffs. .. here is a solution. Leave d graders without bibs.. A to c graders wear a different colour bib so they know who they are racing against and the grade... that way no d grader gets their nose out of joint for being singled out. ..

The sport is doing this successfully around the world... get over it. ..

Has any one considered that some (not all) incidents may have been averted with a little more experience in the riders? A bib "encourages" others to give a novice a bit of leeway. .not saying everyone will but the majority will.

[Turbo]

I really don't see why any d grader should be up in arms... its not about lap times its about experience ffs. .. here is a solution. Leave d graders without bibs.. A to c graders wear a different colour bib so they know who they are racing against and the grade... that way no d grader gets their nose out of joint for being singled out. ..

The sport is doing this successfully around the world... get over it. ..

Has any one considered that some (not all) incidents may have been averted with a little more experience in the riders? A bib "encourages" others to give a novice a bit of leeway. .not saying everyone will but the majority will.

Hang on, I'm talking about solving a problem here not whether or not someone's ego is damaged by wearing a vest.
I'd wear a bright pink one if I thought it'd do any good. My point is that I don't believe wearing a vest is helping any and I'm genuinely asking what problem is being solved in doing so..?

[Negrogrande]

What's wrong with wearing your gear to scrutineering?

It was 40 degrees last time out, major PITA to stand in line in the sun sweating in your leathers

[johnnyb]

HA....Haven't had the privilege yet......does it include the following rules. I personally love guys that follow these ones.

rule No.

922 - One must take club racing way too seriously and think of themselves as a motorcycling god
923 - One must blame newcomers to the sport and talk about how good it was in the good old days when nothing ever went wrong.
924 - one must ignore the fact that you may think your fast however you are competing in club racing (for a surprising large number of years) which is run by an 80 year old lady and a bunch of volunteers

Best way to get perspective is when you get home from racing show your wife the trophy and tell her all about your day....usually the response is "that's nice dear"......she is really thinking......."wow our sons under 10's soccer trophy is bigger than that.......just go and mow the lawn"




Those benefits are listed in the info letter from MNSW when you get graded up. They also include the right to wheelie, to not remove your bellypan for scrutineering, to be a complete dickhead while riding in the pits, to wear open-toed shoes in pit lane, and the morning riders briefing becomes completely optional. Did you not get the same notice, John?

[gaz37]

Hi All. All trace of colour is almost impossible to get rid of given the geometry of radiator, hoses etc. Water looks clear after flushing multiple times but heat the bike to 100C and a tint seems to reappear. I use glycol FREE anti-corrosion fluid only between races and got a bigger radiator eliminating the need for 'glycol coolent'. That said I'm told I left a trace of green at St G in the clubsport 600 race 1 north circuit but I do not remember anything past griding up. Yeah I was the racer impacting stalled guy.

Would a high vis vest made any difference? On the start line probably not in this case looking at footage, but otherwise a high vis vest would suggest 'hey new guy here' - take a good look at his lines and take a extra couple of corners to pass if needed. As long as there are no unnecessary risks we all take the risk of competing like in all sports including topically cricket.

[Little Mick]

Hang on, I'm talking about solving a problem here not whether or not someone's ego is damaged by wearing a vest.
I'd wear a bright pink one if I thought it'd do any good. My point is that I don't believe wearing a vest is helping any and I'm genuinely asking what problem is being solved in doing so..?

Ok..

Let me use an analogy....

Why use L plates on a car? Does it not advise the other drivers of the level of experience the driver may have, and there is some chance of an unplanned response/ action from the learner? That's not saying that the L plater is guaranteed to make an error, but there is a possibility, and more so with some than with others... It also doesn't mean that every non L plater is going to be a little more patient around them (there are some drivers who see them as an obstacle and want to get infront of them as it slows them down), but the majority of drivers do give a bit of extra berth/ have a little more patience... I personally think it should be enforced more heavily as the L plater is concentrating on 1001 things and any unnecessary distraction from an arrogant driver will have a negative impact...

Lets consider this in a racing context....

the novice is trying to learn/ take in a hell of a lot when starting out... we will keep lap times out of it as some guys are super quick but may be new to racing, and some guys may have been riding for 20 years but happily lap around in white group at a pace they are comfortable with..Lap times can be worked on and learn the circuit on track days with a 2m passing rule etc etc etc when things are more predictable...(mind you this is not a requirement, as has been stated, a race licence is fairly easy to get and does not require a minimum pace, x amount of track days, have riden in green group or higher, etc etc..).


What is it that is different for a novice between track days and racing? Some things come to mind..

Being on the track with a variety of levels of expertise that can have 20s / lap difference
Timing counts - everyone is out to do a hot lap for the duration of Qualifying and the race..
Qualifying- usually in the morning so no time to warm up to your best pace (which for me is usually around the middle of the day)
Gridding up- knowing which row and which position you will be in and finding that as fast as possible. Add the extra bit of confusion at SMSP that there are 2 sets of grids - cars and bikes.. confused me first time out...
The start - Clutch/ Gears/ Throttle/ Revs/ Red lights/ Flags/ no lights..not to mention keeping the front wheel on the ground and the back wheel turning when expected to..
Turn 1- getting through T1 without getting bumped/ running off/ 10 wide etc etc etc.... and remembering that you normally go through there much faster than you will be on an opening lap of a race.
adjusting to the fact that guys will lean on you mid turn going round a corner and expecting you to hold your line..
seeing your brake markers as you are coming up to a turn faster than you normally do and not used to bikes being so close..possibly outbraking yourself a little (possible even having the bike in front of you be so hard on the brakes that their back wheel is in the air and you have no where to go)
seeing a wheel in your periphery as you tip into a turn and keeping yourself from standing the bike up for fear of the muppet taking you out
seeing any flags out on track and responding accordingly
experiencing the bike doing things like head shake or slides etc that you dont normally do on track days as you ride at 9 tenths..
making sure you dont miss the last lap board and the chequered flag so that when ol mate pips you down the straight and then rolls off as the race is over and you dont realise, you don't take him out...
not missing the back entrance at T4 when the race is over
all the rules you are expected to know and abide by..
hoping you dont get lapped by the likes of Kevin Curtain and Brock Parkes who are racing for sheep stations (luckily they know how to navigate a backmarker and they are done before you know what didnt hit you)


And the list goes on..

everything I reference above, is based literally on what I have experienced. Some here will actually remember some of those moments and get a giggle out of it too (i just did thinking back) As you can see, I had a lot going on to deal with, not to mention the adrenalin pumping and remembering all the other things you need to that your brain forgets..

"Would a vest have helped?"

It would have let others know that leaning on me in the middle of a turn was a risky move as there was no way of knowing how I would react.
It would have let people know that if I looked like I was too hot into a turn, chances are I was outside my limits as compared to being within my talent...

It would not have necessarily eliminated the any of the incidents, but it may have prompted the other riders to "reconsider" their bold move that they pull on a b grader with confidence of predicatable lines etc, and may have made them pick a better position to overtake...

Just like the L plate, it provides a risk awareness to other riders. (we should all acknowledge that beginners/ novices/ etc are going to have a lot going on so chances of missing something or doing it different to what the experienced persons may do are higher)

To take it further, I would think there should be some appropriate ettiqette policed for the other riders around D graders. ( I think this should be law for L platers and those intimidating them unneccesarily)..eg maybe no rubbing, etc etc

This is for the safety of all, especially those new to racing...

this post is too long already so I sill stop there

Mick

[Little Mick]

Hi All. All trace of colour is almost impossible to get rid of given the geometry of radiator, hoses etc. Water looks clear after flushing multiple times but heat the bike to 100C and a tint seems to reappear. I use glycol FREE anti-corrosion fluid only between races and got a bigger radiator eliminating the need for 'glycol coolent'. That said I'm told I left a trace of green at St G in the clubsport 600 race 1 north circuit but I do not remember anything past griding up. Yeah I was the racer impacting stalled guy.

Would a high vis vest made any difference? On the start line probably not in this case looking at footage, but otherwise a high vis vest would suggest 'hey new guy here' - take a good look at his lines and take a extra couple of corners to pass if needed. As long as there are no unnecessary risks we all take the risk of competing like in all sports including topically cricket.

Hey Gary

good to hear from you. hope you are healing up mate.

Sicko (Owen) was the gentleman that received your love tap :)


cheers

Mick

[gaz37]

Yeah busted ribs good, shoulder blade bust almost and soft tissue damage coming good. Spoke to Owen and he came across a good genuine guy. He did not intend to stall any more than I would hit him. Both of us do not remember so no emotion from me. After 7 years of racing accidents happen. No finger pointing or aggro from me. I have my ninja 300 won in FX Club this year so I'm race ready mobile If I choose. Otherwise I have volunteered to Jan as whatever flaggi , pick up etc than would assist our club in 2015...

[Little Mick]

Great to hear mate. Look forward to seeing you out there

[Phat3R]

It does make the $99 I recently spent on a gear bag with wheels a bit of a waste :rofl:

Same/same & exactly!!!

[Phat3R]

She is really thinking......."wow our sons under 10's soccer trophy is bigger than that.......just go and mow the lawn"

Gold! ;)

[Negrogrande]

I'd wear a bright pink one if I thought it'd do any good.
Would be my colour of choice…
Let's see if I get the letter in the next couple of weeks (fingers crossed)

[dan]

White vest for white group riders

[Marshy]

Hi All. All trace of colour is almost impossible to get rid of given the geometry of radiator, hoses etc. Water looks clear after flushing multiple times but heat the bike to 100C and a tint seems to reappear.

Totes!! It's impossible to get it all. And besides, IT'S NOT A REAL ISSUE!! It's not like it's a fire hazard or anything. And it's still waaaay less slippery than oil. Although I repeat, I've never in all my years seen a problem caused by coolant. Oil on the other hand....

Hey, I might run my bike with water instead of oil!! Reckon that'll work?

[Phat3R]

Totes!! It's impossible to get it all. And besides, IT'S NOT A REAL ISSUE!! It's not like it's a fire hazard or anything. And it's still waaaay less slippery than oil. Although I repeat, I've never in all my years seen a problem caused by coolant. Oil on the other hand....

I agree it is hard to get rid of all the blue or green tinge in coolant - I flushed the old GSXR with 10 l of demineralised water first, ran it for 15 minutes, then flushed another 10 l ... it still came out with a mild green tinge. It doesn't feel slippery, just feels like water to touch. Now I just run mine on demineralised all the time. (Well the last time I rode em. :ballchain:)

We do keep seeing incidents involving oil and bikes with belly pans that are suppose to catch the oil? How's that work ... or not? They mustn't be containing it properly, especially if it's being pumped out say through a filter coming off ... and how does that happen if it's lock wired on as per regs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUR27Krv6b0

[Marshy]

That's what I mean. It's not checked properly. Whereas knee-jerk reaction to a tinge of green and we've all gotta disassemble our bikes first thing on Saturday morning. Daft.

[WETTY]

I agree it is hard to get rid of all the blue or green tinge in coolant - I flushed the old GSXR with 10 l of demineralised water first, ran it for 15 minutes, then flushed another 10 l ... it still came out with a mild green tinge. It doesn't feel slippery, just feels like water to touch. Now I just run mine on demineralised all the time. (Well the last time I rode em. :ballchain:)

We do keep seeing incidents involving oil and bikes with belly pans that are suppose to catch the oil? How's that work ... or not? They mustn't be containing it properly, especially if it's being pumped out say through a filter coming off ... and how does that happen if it's lock wired on as per regs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUR27Krv6b0

That was a bit silly , crashed , slid down the road ,picked it up and re-entered the track , did he even look to see if he had damaged the bike and it could have been leaking . i think not , was a bit all too fast
BSB if you fall off you cant remount , simple.

[Phat3R]

BSB if you fall off you cant remount, simple.

I think that was Stu.

Now there's a good rule for St George & FX!

[Negrogrande]

That's what I mean. It's not checked properly. Whereas knee-jerk reaction to a tinge of green and we've all gotta disassemble our bikes first thing on Saturday morning. Daft.

I had the slightest of tinges, made me remove entire fairing and drain and re-fill in front of them. I'm sure it would tinge green again it was the third time I had flushed it (overlow was clear).

luckily the R1 means I can just take the side fairing of rather than the whole thing

[Negrogrande]

Also just wanted to add Bibs would have been fantastic in the 4 hour, doddling along with a 1:12 pace (my best lap) I was on track with people who where lapping me every 6-7 laps I think it would have been helpful for both myself and others

[Marshy]

Also just wanted to add Bibs would have been fantastic in the 4 hour, doddling along with a 1:12 pace (my best lap) I was on track with people who where lapping me every 6-7 laps I think it would have been helpful for both myself and others

Be honest, Lawson.... you just want to wear more fluoro!! ;)

[Mstevo]

Be honest, Lawson.... you just want to wear more fluoro!! ;)

I guess it beats painting it on your bike lol

[Negrogrande]

Be honest, Lawson.... you just want to wear more fluoro!! ;)

I'm secretly hoping I stay a D grader so I can keep the Fluoro... 1:43 is slower than Brayden Elliot and he is a D grader

[Carl-52]

GAZ37 WASSSSUPPPPPPP :P and any excuse for more fluoro is a GREAT thing!!

[Lets Torque]

Was there a problem with radiator fluid spills at last meet?

D graders & vests sounds like very sensible, certainly a good reason to want to get the fark out of D grade. But will it make it easier to spot parked bikes further up the grid when the lights go out? ;)

Yes pay the damn flaggies, the SMSP contract requires them to pay tens of thousands for the hundreds of security staff.

To answer your question Rick there was a problem with ppl running coolant all weekend - if it keeps happening eventually it will run the same way as the American system where everyone rocks up with a dry radiator and it is filled by a marshall - in the result of a accident ,if it is then found to have been tampered with your banned for that year.


I'm all for a revision of the rules but I'm not sure a bright vest would have helped me or anybody involved with my incident...
50 bikes is too many for such a short course and the grid spacing, I think, is too close.
What if rookies started from the back of the grid for a period of time??

I was right on the start line when this incident happened and was one of the first on the scene of your accident Sicko You are correct in saying that a vest wouldnt of helped in your case, it was a pure race incident. As the pack parted to go around you, unfortunately the back markers couldnt see you - im real glad you were all ok mate - this incident rattled me to say the least.

[Marshy]

To answer your question Rick there was a problem with ppl running coolant all weekend

I'm going to suggest that the 'problem' is people like Gaz - and all of us!! - that have drained the system, flushed it, and filled it up with water, but the tint remains due to the very small amount of residual coolant hidden in the system. To my mind, this is NOT "running coolant", but yet this is what Gaz and others are being accused of, and is why we are now in this situation.

So, without dismantling the engine and the whole cooling system, how much of a trace is acceptable? If the answer is 'none', how many flushes does it take to remove all traces? What if it's essentially impossible?

How is the water deemed to be pure water? What is the test procedure? Just eyeballed? Specific gravity test? Send it away to a lab?? I'd hate to see people consistently being sent away to re-drain and re-fill their radiators because the difference between a microscopic trace and full coolant is subjectively determined by an old dude with bad eyesight in a dark garage at 7am during scrutineering.

Also, I know that technically coolant is slippery when dumped on a racetrack, but how many people have EVER seen that happen?? Cars, yes, because the radiator at the front is the first thing to get damaged. But bikes?? I've never seen it, ever.

Sooooo, are we overreacting just a bit here? Why not concentrate on ensuring OIL is as contained as possible. That's the thing that everyone crashes on, and causes major delays while cleaning it up.

Thoughts?

[Lets Torque]

I'm going to suggest that the 'problem' is people like Gaz - and all of us!! - that have drained the system, flushed it, and filled it up with water, but the tint remains due to the very small amount of residual coolant hidden in the system. To my mind, this is NOT "running coolant", but yet this is what Gaz and others are being accused of, and is why we are now in this situation.

So, without dismantling the engine and the whole cooling system, how much of a trace is acceptable? If the answer is 'none', how many flushes does it take to remove all traces? What if it's essentially impossible?

How is the water deemed to be pure water? What is the test procedure? Just eyeballed? Specific gravity test? Send it away to a lab?? I'd hate to see people consistently being sent away to re-drain and re-fill their radiators because the difference between a microscopic trace and full coolant is subjectively determined by an old dude with bad eyesight in a dark garage at 7am during scrutineering.

Also, I know that technically coolant is slippery when dumped on a racetrack, but how many people have EVER seen that happen?? Cars, yes, because the radiator at the front is the first thing to get damaged. But bikes?? I've never seen it, ever.

Sooooo, are we overreacting just a bit here? Why not concentrate on ensuring OIL is as contained as possible. That's the thing that everyone crashes on, and causes major delays while cleaning it up.

Thoughts?

Of the bikes i cleaned up at various race meets coolant was apparent and not only this race incident, and i have bad eye sight and it was as plain as day, not just a little green FLOURECENT... Im not pointing any fingers just merely a observation from my experience running recovery...

if these things keep happening unfortunately this is the direction the organisers will have to take to stop ppl doing the wrong thing or pleading ignorance!

But yes it is a small part of the puzzle, at the end of the day more track time and fewer acco's is the name of the game.

[Lets Torque]

ps dropped those $$$ int your account tonight Marshy :) will text you my address - might try and pick them up tomorrow as im at the track on Thurs - wats your movements?

[Turbo]

Real glad you were all ok mate - this incident rattled me to say the least.

Really appreciate your having helped out mate. Made all the difference to me getting medical help as quickly as I did.
Happy to say I'm recovering well tho, sorry for the rattle!

[Turbo]

But yes it is a small part of the puzzle, at the end of the day more track time and fewer acco's is the name of the game.

Well in favour of this... Happy to play a part in cutting down on the acco's, even if it is by wearing a vest!
Keen to hear of any other recurring issues and what could be done about them...

[Marshy]

ps dropped those $$$ int your account tonight Marshy :) will text you my address - might try and pick them up tomorrow as im at the track on Thurs - wats your movements?

Around tomorrow mate, if you wanna swing by. Just call first.

[Lets Torque]

Really appreciate your having helped out mate. Made all the difference to me getting medical help as quickly as I did.
Happy to say I'm recovering well tho, sorry for the rattle!

no sweat pal - glad your all good my friend :)

[WETTY]

simply run the hose in your rad and have the bottom hose or drain out while the engine is running , if this is not possible then you must stay at home and have mummy feed you your porridge

[Saturnalian]

simply run the hose in your rad and have the bottom hose or drain out while the engine is running , if this is not possible then you must stay at home and have mummy feed you your porridge

Wow.....
All we need to do now is teach you where the emoji are on your phone and you're basically Einstein

[WETTY]

Wow.....
All we need to do now is teach you where the emoji are on your phone and you're basically Einstein

The who ?

[Saturnalian]

[emoji130][emoji130][emoji130][emoji130][emoji130][emoji469][emoji469][emoji469][emoji469][emoji469][emoji41][emoji41][emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]


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[WETTY]

Be farkt if I know where they are
Y the. !!!! Do they call em that ?