600cc retro class stg

[Leezx10r]

The retro 600cc class that stg run, stats from 1984-1995 for 350cc-600cc covering 2, 3 & 4 cylinder engines.
Does anyone know if you can run a old frame with new modern brakes & suspension?
Just I have a old 1985 frame and would be a good longterm project to build a fun little cc light weight bike.
Cheers
Lee

[chubb]

Well technically you can...

But... You would get an unfair advantage over the other guys who are running the right running gear for that year model..

Do you really want to win that way??

[tempest]

build it up and race at st george. the rules are more like guidelines anyhow for the club. that discussion has been had many times.

you won't be able to run PCRA if you ran components out of the period, but there are loop holes there too!

[Leezx10r]

Thanks for that, yeh was just thinking stg and track days.

Just looking if I should go 2 stroke or 4 stroke.

Frame wise can get my hands on a rz350 or a bimota kb2.

This will be a long long term project as just got made redundant, but everyone needs a project in the shed :)

[tempest]

interesting. make sure you start a thread on the build :clap:

[Leezx10r]

Sure will. :)

[Marshy]

interesting. make sure you start a thread on the build :clap:

+1 :peace:

[dan]

cut off should be 99 for this!

[Mr.Ed]

if you're not breaking any rule, I say GO FOR IT!

[dan]

What's the actual purpose of this class? All these bikes are covered by P6 and pre-modern f2/3.

[dan]

Or is it a hot rod class? I reckon a carby 600 class and call that retro would be better

[Mr.Ed]

Can or worms that one... much like the whole clubsport/modern 600 debate

[dan]

There's already a 250 smoker / 400cc class though right? All those bikes are retro anyway.

[dan]

I'm sure a lot of thought has gone into it I just don't really get it

[Mr.Ed]

I'm sure a lot of thought has gone into it I just don't really get it


Not sure anyone does, really... but what pisses me off are not even the rules. Is that every time someone tries to make things a bit more 'logical' some selfish idiot pipes up to try and defend any edge he might lose. I've seen it happened a numerous times... ppl know the current system is not fair but that's ok as long as it's unfair towards others and not them.

[dan]

I guess I would see a carby 600 class as an 'entry point / toe in the water class class. I know clubsport is at the moment but realistically though those bikes are all 10k+ bikes. I also know that racing costs money but for say, blokes in their 20s that's too much. You can pick up a carby gsxr / zx6 / r6 for under $1500 just some fairings on it / cover up the light holes and get out there and if they can ride could be reasonably competitive. 400cc bikes are worth twice as much. I think for encouraging people into the sport it could be an idea worth considering.

[dan]

*competitive still someone chucks 5k at their 97 gsxr 600 at least - but that's always going to happen

[Mr.Ed]

Yes, I agree. The thing with the 250/400 class is that it gets pricey because bikes are LAMs (mostly) so even a SWO will still be worth something even if for parts alone... their price dropped a bit since the introduction of the Ninja 250 and CBR250R, before that it was just nuts.

These bikes that find themselves currently in the 'limbo' of racing classes (i.e. old 600s/750s and even 1000s) can be had for next to nothing. But then again, if you're racing them you know you'll have to spend some money. Not to make them go faster but to make sure they'll go and keep going... lots of these bikes are seriously neglected and a simple suspension refresh can cost almost as much as half the bike!

[dan]

I reckon a clean of the carbs, new oil / fluids inc forks and shocks, sprockets and chain and most of then wouldn't be too bad. Anything that needs more than that wouldn't be worth more than a grand to buy.

[Mr.Ed]

It will depend on the k's... you don't want to race an old bike with 60K+ on the odometer, especially without knowing what kind of maintenance it had throughout its life. Otherwise you're risking refreshing/upgrading the bits you mentioned + race farings + tires and then have your engine give up the ghost after a couple of races. The cheap just turned out to be expensive again.

[dan]

I just think it's worth considering if it hasn't been already. I know people with suitable bikes who would like to get into racing but are scared off as their bikes would be miles off the pace.

In saying that, I thought the same initially then I realised it was easier to just go faster than the flash newer models haha

[Mr.Ed]

Yep, 100%! Unless you're lapping under 45s a new bike will not make that much difference...it's easier to ride, of course. But you can do the times on an old bike if you're skilled enough.

One of the best battles I had whilst racing was against a 96 ZX6R! It wasn't anywhere near stock and it even spun a bearing on one the races eventually but the rider was this old guy who could obviously be going a looooot faster on a newer bike.

[dan]

It will depend on the k's... you don't want to race an old bike with 60K+ on the odometer, especially without knowing what kind of maintenance it had throughout its life. Otherwise you're risking refreshing/upgrading the bits you mentioned + race farings + tires and then have your engine give up the ghost after a couple of races. The cheap just turned out to be expensive again.

I agree. Some due diligence is required of course. I wouldn't expect it to go straight to track without checking it over properly. Those 600s are pretty tough bikes so as long as they haven't been run into the ground / starved of oil they shouldn't be *too* bad.

[Mr.Ed]

Yep. I had a flatmate who had a 2001 F4i (injected but bear with me) and it had, no joke, 130+Ks without anyone ever touching the engine (not even clearance checks) and its chain looked like it would have a hard time on a BMX. It was that neglected... He then took it to have an oil change (must have won some $ on a scratchie or something hahaha) and the mechanic called back to say he had oil all over the floor 'cause the bike had been overfilled last time by over 1L (didn't even know you could fit that much more in it!) and it was a miracle the bike was still going. He added another 20Ks to it before selling.

[dan]

Haha tough as nails

[dan]

Basically if when they start rattling too much if you get it looked at they should be fine (especially cam chain tensioners!)

[Tristan]

I have a Bimota YB7 I'm getting rid of I have to many projects.
Just sayin hahaha


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[Mr.Ed]

Basically if when they start rattling too much if you get it looked at they should be fine (especially cam chain tensioners!)

Yeah that bike was miracle though... hahaha I don't expect many to take that kinda of abuse and for so long. I mean, really... I sometimes find myself thinking if I should refresh the engine on the ZX6 and it has less than 10Ks and less than 2Ks on the track! ahahaha

[Leezx10r]

Wow didn't I open I can of worms. Had no idea how deep it's goes in the back ground.
But thinking bimota frame with smoker engine :)

[Mr.Ed]

But thinking bimota frame with smoker engine :)

I reckon it can look killer! Not sure how much the frame alone is worth though as I imagine there are not many of those around anymore...

[Nelso]

I know clubsport is at the moment but realistically though those bikes are all 10k+ bikes.

Really? Leanne's bike is a competitive Clubsport bike, for sale for $5,500 (and no one is interested in buying it). The only two people that beat her the last time she raced it, were Marshy and Grasshopper and both of them are now on bigger bikes, so it's going to be pretty embarrassing if some girl comes out on a bog stock, old, outdated bike and beats all these guys on their $10k+ bikes in the last St George round this year.;)

[Nelso]

Your cheapest option is to get a premodern bike ('91-'95) that's already set up to race. You pick one up for under $4K ready to go and you can race St George, PCRA and even FX retro if you want. Check out Rick's old GSXR750 for only $3,800. (http://nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/showthread.php?23661-Ready-to-race-GSXR-750T-(96)-PCRA-Retro-FX-Classic-Race-or-Track-bike-for-sale&p=410468#post410468)

The problem with old bikes, especially old two strokes is that they get very expensive to fix up and maintain. The two most expensive bikes in our garage are the RS125 and the RDLC350.

If you really want a smoker, the cheapest option is a period 6 or premodern 250 production bike, since there are still heaps of RGV's out there and parts aren't too ridiculous yet.

[dan]

Really? Leanne's bike is a competitive Clubsport bike, for sale for $5,500 (and no one is interested in buying it). The only two people that beat her the last time she raced it, were Marshy and Grasshopper and both of them are now on bigger bikes, so it's going to be pretty embarrassing if some girl comes out on a bog stock, old, outdated bike and beats all these guys on their $10k+ bikes in the last St George round this year.;)

Haha true, certainly the exception not the rule though. I'm sure Leanne will be right up there for sure.

[Leezx10r]

Thanks for all the tips guys & some great advice.
It's going to be a long term project, but got some great ideas with some help from you lot.

[chubb]

Really? Leanne's bike is a competitive Clubsport bike, for sale for $5,500 (and no one is interested in buying it). The only two people that beat her the last time she raced it, were Marshy and Grasshopper and both of them are now on bigger bikes, so it's going to be pretty embarrassing if some girl comes out on a bog stock, old, outdated bike and beats all these guys on their $10k+ bikes in the last St George round this year.;)

I haven't raced Leanne last year. Definitely look forward to this year if she is coming out on her zx6rrrrrrrr ;)

My excuse will be she's got more experience.. ;) and a B grader..

[Mr.Ed]

aaaaand she weighs less and doesn't crash (aka rotating mass - we have all heard how terrible that is for performance)

[Nelso]

aaaaand she weighs less and doesn't crash (aka rotating mass - we have all heard how terrible that is for performance)

She crashed last weekend, on a Commuterlite of all things.

[Little Mick]

She crashed last weekend, on a Commuterlite of all things.
Bugger rob. Hope she is Ok. Was it at pcra?

[Mr.Ed]

That sucks... hope she's alright! Thankfully I said that after she'd already crashed or I'd be feeling like I jynxed her!

[Nelso]

Bugger rob. Hope she is Ok. Was it at pcra?

Nah, it was a track day at Wakefield a week before the PCRA weekend. It was the first corner of the first lap of the first session on the first day she had ridden it too! Silly girl forgot to check tyre pressures on a brand new tyre, without warmers, at Wakefield, first thing on a cold day. The front tyre had 38psi in it so she lost the front going into turn two, straight out of the pits. She is fine and they patched the bike up on the day to keep riding it.

We fixed it up through the week and she raced it over the weekend. In the sprints, she came first in class in the first race despite it not running right, DNFed the second race due to a mechanical failure and came from the back of the grid to finish 2nd in class in the 3rd race. The bike stopped because she had forgot to reconnect a couple of plugs when she pulled the dash off when she fixed the damage from last week's crash and the battery died. It was also running poorly, because the fuel pump was disconnected!

Leanne and Rachelle then raced it in the One Hour on the Sunday and came 2nd in class!!!! Leanne got the fastest lap of the race in her stint and Rachelle rode absolutely brilliantly to bring it home!

[Little Mick]

Great stuff. Good outcome in the end. Congrats to both of them

[Marshy]

Great stuff. Good outcome in the end. Congrats to both of them

+1,000,000

[Saturnalian]

Really? Leanne's bike is a competitive Clubsport bike, for sale for $5,500 (and no one is interested in buying it). The only two people that beat her the last time she raced it, were Marshy and Grasshopper and both of them are now on bigger bikes, so it's going to be pretty embarrassing if some girl comes out on a bog stock, old, outdated bike and beats all these guys on their $10k+ bikes in the last St George round this year.;)

I'm not fussed. I'm used to all of you girls beating me on my $10k plus bike. I loved building it


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[Nelso]

Great stuff. Good outcome in the end. Congrats to both of them

Yeah, they did awesome. The team that won, got away at the start and led from start to finish, but the two girls weren't far behind them and stayed in second the whole race. Not bad considering the bike is bog standard and cost a total of $1300 on the track (including a new set of tyres!) and it was the first time either of them had raced it. They certainly showed up quite a few teams that were taking things a lot more seriously.

[Mr.Ed]

It was the first corner of the first lap of the first session on the first day she had ridden it too! Silly girl forgot to check tyre pressures on a brand new tyre, without warmers, at Wakefield, first thing on a cold day. The front tyre had 38psi in it so she lost the front going into turn two, straight out of the pits.

Ha! I forgot to check the tire pressures the first time I went to WP as well... and now I can finally say I did better than Leanne for once... as I lasted till T8! hahaha Not to be outdone I decided to crash on that same corner again 2 sessions later!


Argh... that reminds me of Duncan's map of Wakefield (don't act like you guys are not tagged on it either, Little Mick/Marshy lol)

[Little Mick]

Sounds like fight club
.....

[Mr.Ed]

Sounds like fight club
.....

So what you're saying is that I should make a video of it? hmmmm... I do have lotsa time available and a willing 'puter.

[Little Mick]

So what you're saying is that I should make a video of it? hmmmm... I do have lotsa time available and a willing 'puter.
Moving right along folks... nothing to see here.......[emoji61] [emoji48]