Budget engine oil choice

[Eddie Lee]

So I have always used Motul 300V 10w-40 for my previous bikes and tried the Belray EXS, they are both great to run but just a bit pricey for what they all. Then I came across a whole-seller for Penrite Racing 10 10w-40 20L for $220 bux ($11/litre)! What a deal considering both the 4L Motul300V and 4L Belray EXS are retailing for $119 bux ($29.75/litre).

So my question is has anyone tried the Penrite Racing 10? Are they good to have fun on? Purpose of my bike would be every weekend mountain fun and all ARDC day plus once a month track day, that's why oil changing is expecting at least once a month.

Any comments are appreciated. :D

[Marshy]

I'm pretty sure that's a car oil. Some of those Penrite oils reckon they can be used for both cars and bikes, but it's a compromise which I wouldn't make for my bike.

I use Castrol Power 1 Racing. Full synthetic bike oil, from Supercheap for $70 per 4 litres ($17.5/L). Good stuff.

Or if you're interested, I've got a brand new 20 litre drum of Motul 7100 10W40. Fully synthetic etc. $350 ($17.5/L).

[chubb]

Sorry but I have to ask the question why skimp?

[Eddie Lee]

I'm pretty sure that's a car oil. Some of those Penrite oils reckon they can be used for both cars and bikes, but it's a compromise which I wouldn't make for my bike.

I use Castrol Power 1 Racing. Full synthetic bike oil, from Supercheap for $70 per 4 litres ($17.5/L). Good stuff.

Or if you're interested, I've got a brand new 20 litre drum of Motul 7100 10W40. Fully synthetic etc. $350 ($17.5/L).

Castrol Power 1 Racing sounds like a deal! Will give it a try then! Better than 300V and EXS $119 for 4L ($29.75/L)

[Eddie Lee]

Sorry but I have to ask the question why skimp?

I have heard/seen quite a lot of people said Motul is overpriced, so was thinking to try something else if there is a big difference that you can feel.

[Little Mick]

You can feel the difference in the handling of the rear end...when you unload the wallet on an engine rebuild ;)

[chubb]

this ^^^

[Marshy]

Sorry but I have to ask the question why skimp?

Rumour has it that Motul is so full of additives because it's the only way to get the low quality russian oil to work properly. And that IPONE is a related offshoot of Motul (the father owns Motul and the son started up ipone).

Maybe I just trust the Poms (Castrol) more than the French (Motul, IPONE) to make good oil :confused:

[Phat3R]

Buy the drum if you're changing oil once a month ... seems excessively frequent to me ... why not just follow the manufacturer's guidelines every service period ... or even half that ??? How many km you racking up every month?

[Mr.Ed]

^this!

How much is a drum of 300V? Surely it will be cheaper than buying per gallon

[chubb]

Rumour has it that Motul is so full of additives because it's the only way to get the low quality russian oil to work properly. And that IPONE is a related offshoot of Motul (the father owns Motul and the son started up ipone).

Maybe I just trust the Poms (Castrol) more than the French (Motul, IPONE) to make good oil :confused:

I couldn't tell the difference. I stick yank oil in and the gearbox seems to like it better

[Marshy]

Which one?
I always loved the feel of Mobil1 in bikes. After an oil change, the gearbox was like a hot knife through butter.

[chubb]

Maxima oils 530RR

[Mr.Ed]

Which one?
I always loved the feel of Mobil1 in bikes. After an oil change, the gearbox was like a hot knife through butter.

I thought Mobil1 was car only... then again, this topic is a whole other can of worms in itself, isn't it?! hahaha

[Marshy]

Nah, Mobil1 have a bike version. It's very nice, but not the cheapest at ~$90 per 4 litres.

[Mr.Ed]

Hmmm so basically 300V territory

[shippy__]

It says smart oil

http://shop.coles.com.au/wcsstore/Coles-CAS/images/9/7/9/9794184.jpg

[Phat3R]

Which one?
I always loved the feel of Mobil1 in bikes. After an oil change, the gearbox was like a hot knife through butter.

Ohh this is getting interesting ... seriously you can feel the difference gearbox wise??? OK I gotta try some of the uber good top shelf stuff next.

[Eddie Lee]

You can feel the difference in the handling of the rear end...when you unload the wallet on an engine rebuild ;)

LOL yeah that would hurt mick

[Eddie Lee]

Buy the drum if you're changing oil once a month ... seems excessively frequent to me ... why not just follow the manufacturer's guidelines every service period ... or even half that ??? How many km you racking up every month?


^this!

How much is a drum of 300V? Surely it will be cheaper than buying per gallon

Yeah I wish if they sell it in 20L pack, cause it would bring down the $29.75/L to maybe at least $25/L? Then that would be a different story!

[Eddie Lee]

Which one?
I always loved the feel of Mobil1 in bikes. After an oil change, the gearbox was like a hot knife through butter.

Wow I love this "hot knife through butter" thingy, thought only 300V or EXS will give you this shit

[Eddie Lee]

Nah, Mobil1 have a bike version. It's very nice, but not the cheapest at ~$90 per 4 litres.

So same price tag at 4L Motul 7100, which one you reckon in this range than? And do you know any channels for bulk pack marshy?

[Eddie Lee]

It says smart oil

http://shop.coles.com.au/wcsstore/Coles-CAS/images/9/7/9/9794184.jpg

this is worse than using my old oil shippy LOL

[Marshy]

It says smart oil

http://shop.coles.com.au/wcsstore/Coles-CAS/images/9/7/9/9794184.jpg

I think it's a fill-in-the-blanks puzzle. I'm going with "If you're not at all smart, buy this motor oil".

[Marshy]

this is worse than using my old oil shippy LOL

+1!!!!

[Marshy]

So same price tag at 4L Motul 7100, which one you reckon in this range than? And do you know any channels for bulk pack marshy?

I can get bulk packs of Motul cheaply. Like I said before, I have a 20 litre drum of Motul 7100 here that I will sell for $350 (which is $17.50 per litre, or the equivalent of $70 per 4 litres). I can also get 20 litre drums of 300V for $490.

If you are just buying 4 litres, get the Mobil1. If you want a good oil in bulk, go the 7100. That's why I bought several drums of it.

[chubb]

Yeah I wish if they sell it in 20L pack, cause it would bring down the $29.75/L to maybe at least $25/L? Then that would be a different story!

29.75 to 25.00

What's the real diff??

Start working harder. If you play plan to pay.
Budget anything with motorbike never ends well. Do it once and do it right.

[Marshy]

Wow I love this "hot knife through butter" thingy, thought only 300V or EXS will give you this shit

I really, really noticed it on the '98 Blade. Not sure about now on the new bikes.

But it only lasted a short while, then it reverted to a more normal gearbox feel after a day or so.

[Tristan]

I have been using Lucas Oils for about 2 years now 10w 50 it's fully sin and about $100 for 5ltrs I generally do them for $90 though. And I have been doing oil changes about every 500ks and realistically I could double that because it's still clean as when I drain it.

[Eddie Lee]

I can get bulk packs of Motul cheaply. Like I said before, I have a 20 litre drum of Motul 7100 here that I will sell for $350 (which is $17.50 per litre, or the equivalent of $70 per 4 litres). I can also get 20 litre drums of 300V for $490.

If you are just buying 4 litres, get the Mobil1. If you want a good oil in bulk, go the 7100. That's why I bought several drums of it.

Tempting on the 20L 7100 marshy, if I do 50% commute on road and 50% on track, do you recommend 7100 or 300V?

[Eddie Lee]

29.75 to 25.00

What's the real diff??

Start working harder. If you play plan to pay.
Budget anything with motorbike never ends well. Do it once and do it right.

yea words man, will take it :D

[Eddie Lee]

I have been using Lucas Oils for about 2 years now 10w 50 it's fully sin and about $100 for 5ltrs I generally do them for $90 though. And I have been doing oil changes about every 500ks and realistically I could double that because it's still clean as when I drain it.

What is this Lucas Oils thing? And OMG! every 500k oil change?? For track and racing yea?

[Tristan]

Lucas oils are made in the US and yes 500 for the track and for the road I just follow the recommended service intervals.

[Eddie Lee]

Lucas oils are made in the US and yes 500 for the track and for the road I just follow the recommended service intervals.

How can you tell when to change the oil? As I heard a lot of people change it every 2 TD or practice day, but if 1 TD = 6 sessions on 4.5km track, then 2 TD = 2 x 6 x 4.5km = 54km!? Isn't oil suppose to last longer than that even if you ride it hard?

[Tristan]

I guess it's just personal preference personally I think changing it after every one or two track is stupid but that's just me I think about 500ks is a good start but like I said it's still clean as when I drain it so it really could last longer.

[shippy__]

my opinion every 6 months that's about 5 to 7 days on track, possibly more but I don't treat as Gospel .......


if practice day is in 1 hand and changing oil is in the other, Practice will always win


calm down eddie and just ride the thing

[CBR42]

Speaking of oils... Why is that despite half a dozen world championships to Aussies Repsol isn't sitting on the shelf anywhere? Odd.
I've been using the same as Marshy (castrol).i'd be interested to give the mobile a go.
I've always tried to go with best available as far as oil and fuel.

[Eddie Lee]

I guess it's just personal preference personally I think changing it after every one or two track is stupid but that's just me I think about 500ks is a good start but like I said it's still clean as when I drain it so it really could last longer.


my opinion every 6 months that's about 5 to 7 days on track, possibly more but I don't treat as Gospel .......


if practice day is in 1 hand and changing oil is in the other, Practice will always win


calm down eddie and just ride the thing

Yea need to get out in action after my exam heheheheheh :D

[Mr.Ed]

I guess it's just personal preference personally I think changing it after every one or two track is stupid but that's just me I think about 500ks is a good start but like I said it's still clean as when I drain it so it really could last longer.


I think it all depends on what you're running and how you're running it... We can't say that someone running Motul 3100 and doing 44s on the GP circuit onboard of an old cbr250 (in all its 18000rpm glory)should change the oil every 500Ks. I would think that's equally stupid as running 300V, doing 58s on a modern sportbike and changing it every second track day.

Overall, I think 'common sense', the rarest of all commodities, is required here.

[chubb]

How can you tell when to change the oil? As I heard a lot of people change it every 2 TD or practice day, but if 1 TD = 6 sessions on 4.5km track, then 2 TD = 2 x 6 x 4.5km = 54km!? Isn't oil suppose to last longer than that even if you ride it hard?

Go back to school. Lol

6 sessions say of 8 laps of 4.5 = 216km

Just go out and ride and not worry so much.

[Marshy]

I think it all depends on what you're running and how you're running it... We can't say that someone running Motul 3100 and doing 44s on the GP circuit onboard of an old cbr250 (in all its 18000rpm glory)should change the oil every 500Ks. I would think that's equally stupid as running 300V, doing 58s on a modern sportbike and changing it every second track day.

Overall, I think 'common sense', the rarest of all commodities, is required here.

True words.

So far I'm finding that the Ape needs the oil changed probably 4 times as often as the R6. Two days on track and it's filthy and very much in need of changing. Whereas the R6 will do 8 days and it still looks fresh. Although most of my days so far have been race days on the Ape.

Race starts have a HUGE effect on oil condition. Multiple times destroying the oil with slipping clutch plates ruins the hydrocarbon bonds and breaks down the oil much more quickly than normal wear. Even more so if you slip the clutch a long way (as some people do, although I don't).

[BoB]

Ok here is one to think about .. oils ... there is so much hype out there and marketing that sucks a lot of people in . have a look next time you go into supercheap auto and see how the displays are set up ..

I used to look for well known brands that everyone else out there uses , until i came across an Australian owned company that i have been using now since i purchased the bike new in 2009

Gulf Western . www.gulfwestern.com.au

I have had a tour around the factory and was very impressed with the company and they have an excellent customer service .

This might not be for you or what you want to use , fair enough , but the large companies charge way too much for what your getting (in my opinion)

im running the Protectra ultra semi synthetic 15W-50 and the premuim gold in the car .
865

[Phat3R]

Ok here is one to think about .. oils ... there is so much hype out there and marketing that sucks a lot of people in.

^^^^ Mega agree ... my suspicion is there is a lot of marketing going on ...

Like some coke addled creatives once convinced women to soak their hands in detergent ... only softness going on there was in their heads.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSO0-OOgBA

[Eddie Lee]

Go back to school. Lol

6 sessions say of 8 laps of 4.5 = 216km

Just go out and ride and not worry so much.

HAHAHAHAHAH don't let my senior knows or I may get fired...lol

[Eddie Lee]

True words.

So far I'm finding that the Ape needs the oil changed probably 4 times as often as the R6. Two days on track and it's filthy and very much in need of changing. Whereas the R6 will do 8 days and it still looks fresh. Although most of my days so far have been race days on the Ape.

Race starts have a HUGE effect on oil condition. Multiple times destroying the oil with slipping clutch plates ruins the hydrocarbon bonds and breaks down the oil much more quickly than normal wear. Even more so if you slip the clutch a long way (as some people do, although I don't).

Always love to hear the technical side :D

[Eddie Lee]

Ok here is one to think about .. oils ... there is so much hype out there and marketing that sucks a lot of people in . have a look next time you go into supercheap auto and see how the displays are set up ..

I used to look for well known brands that everyone else out there uses , until i came across an Australian owned company that i have been using now since i purchased the bike new in 2009

Gulf Western . www.gulfwestern.com.au

I have had a tour around the factory and was very impressed with the company and they have an excellent customer service .

This might not be for you or what you want to use , fair enough , but the large companies charge way too much for what your getting (in my opinion)

im running the Protectra ultra semi synthetic 15W-50 and the premuim gold in the car .
865


^^^^ Mega agree ... my suspicion is there is a lot of marketing going on ...

Like some coke addled creatives once convinced women to soak their hands in detergent ... only softness going on there was in their heads.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSO0-OOgBA

Yea that's what I heard about Motul, price comprises of brand name more than the actual product, so wanna give a try to other smaller brand but with similar quality products, such as those mentioned above

[Kimbo]

The clutch plate fibres and the combustion process is what darkens the oil, the big problem is the gearbox in a motorbike. It chews up and shortens the oil molecules.That's why specialist bike oil should be used, It's designed to operate in this environment

[shippy__]

are you going to tell them what you ended up getting eddie?

mmmmmm smells so goood, as a mater a fact I am going to head out to the garage now for a sniff

[dan]

I get Ipone fully synthetic cheap off the distributor and change every 2-3 days. I figure it's cheap insurance for a bike of a certain age. Had no problems with it at all.

[phillmac]

Was going to try Lucus oil. Is the 10W50 FULL Syn for sure, if so where can I pick it up.

[Mouse]

I use the Lucas fully synthetic 10-50 in my R6. Think as long as u change it regularly all of the synthetic oils would be safe. Tristan posted a comment earlier selling it pretty cheap - my next bottle will be off him as I usually pay a bit more. That's if I don't switch to the Castrol that Marshy is talking about.

[phillmac]

Yeah I can only go 4k or 6k to fit in with valve service at 12,000km

[Phat3R]

Found some interesting reading re oil on the interwebby thing ... is it worth considering filter / oil combinations as well as just synthetic v non synthetic ...

http://www.post610.org/truth_about_motorcycle_oils.htm

I was talking to a guy at work who builds performance car engines re the types of oils he prefers and why ... he talked about thinner oil for newer engines getting thicker as they get older with respect to compression ...

He also mentioned that hard core builders perform used oil analysis to see how / if / and to what extent the oil has deteriorated. Could be used to baseline different brands and possibly setups with filter types? He was going to send me a link, but I found this in the meantime ... I realise there is a difference between street and track ... so do these rules still make sense?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/category/5/Oil_Analysis_Reports


What is applicable to most of us…

I’ll throw out some generalizations here that are a result of the data I’ve collected from many thousands of UOAs from all kinds of equipment, from many different sources:

1) The large diversity of use, environment, lube grade, etc is already accounted for in macro-analysis data sets

2) The dedication needed for correct micro-analysis methodology is rare and goes unheeded by most people

3) There is always a “best” combination of equipment, lube and filter, but it goes undiscovered by most people because they do not apply the correct methodology

4) That “best” combination is only applicable to unique individual equipment and given set of limited operational circumstances

5) There is a “sweet spot” where the equipment and lube perform better together

6) That start of that “sweet spot” is unique to each piece of equipment, and lasts much longer than many people would suspect

7) Wear rates will generally shrink as the oil is used, contrary to popular belief

8) Changing oil frequently does not reduce wear in healthy engines with healthy oil

9) Changing oil too soon is a waste of product, regardless of what brand/grade/base stock of lube you choose to utilize

10) Condemnation of the lubricant should be based upon a multitude of criteria, and not with any one criteria taken out of context

11) Condemnation is much further out than many would suspect; only if you were to over-run the “sweet spot” greatly would wear begin to escalate

12) Condemnation levels are generally misunderstood, if acknowledged at all

13) To realize the claimed benefit of any premium product, one must operate in a conditional set of circumstances that manifests into statistically distinguishable differences; the benefit must be tangible, otherwise the benefit does not exist

[Phat3R]

Bob's quick breakdown of types of trace parts found linked to possible specific wear ...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/

[Tristan]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/25/ed3e0a9ba5da1a25c14f17303101981f.jpg
New delivery of Lucas Oils and K&N oil filters.


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