Cbr600rr aftermarket rear shocks?

[Marty]

I've been having massive problems with the rear end of my bike, I just can't get the throttle open hard early on the exit of corners, or at SMSP GP exiting T5, T9 and T12. I can get the thing on line, get the throttle cracked at say 3-5% but feel like I can't just roll it on and drive it out of the corners. I'll be stuck at low throttle position through the exit and have to pin it much later that I'd like. This bike to an extent had never been able to exit corners well. I remember when I owned it along side my Daytona 675, the cbr was much better on corner entry but the Daytona was so good mid to exit.

The bike makes decent power for a cbr, the tune is nice and ridable and linear etc

It didn't really twig until the race meet last weekend.. I was in a pack of cbrs with guys who qualified around me and they were just powering away out of the corners I mentioned,they'd disappear down the straight and bikes would pull out from behind and pass me with ease.

I kept putting it down to HP/gearing/tyres/pressures but I've worked hard to get that all on track and I'm pretty confident that those items are sorted out.

The plus side is the front end is fantastic, I can't believe how much confidence I have in the front end and the same guys that would pull away from me out of the fast corners I would make the time back up through spots like T3-T4, T8, T10-T11.

I've had the stock suspension worked over by shock treatment, it's resprung, race tech gold valves with the rebound separation valve mod in the rear. I've also got terry to adjust it at the track one time aswell.

I'm going to go back and see him soon but I honestly think I should look at getting an aftermarket shock, I didn't see anyone on a 600RR that didn't have one.. But I would really like to hear from guys who have used revolved OEM gear vs aftermarket and was it worth it etc

[Marshy]

I'm going to go back and see him soon but I honestly think I should look at getting an aftermarket shock, I didn't see anyone on a 600RR that didn't have one.. But I would really like to hear from guys who have used revolved OEM gear vs aftermarket and was it worth it etc

Terry has a habit of making race/track bikes very very stiff. Grant likes them that way, and most Shock Treatment suspension I've ridden on (including the rear in my new bike) is simply too stiff for my liking. Some guys like bikes set up like that and others don't. If it's not working for you, it's not working for you - regardless of whether it might suit someone else.

With aftermarket shocks, oils ain't oils. Some are great, some not so much. Some work really well on some makes/models, but not on others. Above all else, steer well clear of the TTX, particularly the Mk I. They are absolutely rubbish. But any other aftermarket often needs tuning and re-springing to suit your bike/style/setup/weight etc. Not many are great out of the box, and none that I know of are reliably great out of the box, despite manufacturer and retailer claims.

OEM shocks can be awesome, but they need to be regularly serviced to maintain their performance. They are usually less sensitive to setup than aftermarket ones, although it depends on how they've been set up. One done by Terry should be great, and very close to an aftermarket in terms of performance. How long since it was serviced? What spring is in there?

[BoB]

Hi Marty

I would be interested in what set up you were running over the weekend compared to me .. Gearing , rear tyre size 180 /190 do you have a quick shifter ?

im running 15/43 with 190 rear and quickshifter

I will post the vids from the meet over the next couple of days to show the different lines coming onto the straight and the difference between the 2 cbrs.

[Marty]

Terry has a habit of making race/track bikes very very stiff. Grant likes them that way, and most Shock Treatment suspension I've ridden on (including the rear in my new bike) is simply too stiff for my liking. Some guys like bikes set up like that and others don't. If it's not working for you, it's not working for you - regardless of whether it might suit someone else.

With aftermarket shocks, oils ain't oils. Some are great, some not so much. Some work really well on some makes/models, but not on others. Above all else, steer well clear of the TTX, particularly the Mk I. They are absolutely rubbish. But any other aftermarket often needs tuning and re-springing to suit your bike/style/setup/weight etc. Not many are great out of the box, and none that I know of are reliably great out of the box, despite manufacturer and retailer claims.

OEM shocks can be awesome, but they need to be regularly serviced to maintain their performance. They are usually less sensitive to setup than aftermarket ones, although it depends on how they've been set up. One done by Terry should be great, and very close to an aftermarket in terms of performance. How long since it was serviced? What spring is in there?

Thanks for the info Nick, that's some very interesting stuff. I'm not sure what kg spring is in it but it was sprung for my weight in 2012 (im about 7kg heavier i think now though :( ) I took the forks and shock to terry out of the bike so its never really been dialed in properly.

My rough plan is to take the whole bike to terry and atleast get a service on the suspension (it would be due by now for sure) and see what he reckons in terms of going aftermarket or just making more changes to what I've got. I'm definitley not game to just put an off the shelf thing in with a spring and hope for the best, I'd want to get it set up by someone in the know.

I honestly think my bike is one of those things where I've gotten used to it but if someone good had a ride of it they'd say how the fk do you ride this thing somethings not right.
I want to get it sorted out, I reckon i'm just pissing time down the drain. Winding on the throttle out of a corner is one of the most fundemental parts of sports riding, it's so frustrating not being able to do it.

[Marty]

Hi Marty

I would be interested in what set up you were running over the weekend compared to me .. Gearing , rear tyre size 180 /190 do you have a quick shifter ?

im running 15/43 with 190 rear and quickshifter

I will post the vids from the meet over the next couple of days to show the different lines coming onto the straight and the difference between the 2 cbrs.

I would be very interested in that aswell mate.

I'm running 16/45 which is 2.81:1, yours is 2.86:1 so it's very close. I actually had it at 2.87 for race 1 on sat but ended up switching sprockets back to 2.81 (was overrevving it everywhere). Yes for quickshifter and the tyre im not 100% sure, it's that CEV moto2 tyre I was telling you about its got weird sizing like the dunlops. It looks pretty fat, it may actually be a 190, I usually run 180s racetecs though. (corner exit problem exists on every tyre i've tried).

My wheelbase as close to stock as I can get it (it's 2-3mm over right now I think), i've tried longer and shorter wheelbase due to different sprocket combos over the years and prefer stock.

What shock do you have in yours Rob?

I'm rendering a video at the moment from race 6 on sat. You'll see every lap I get a shit drive out of 12 and it costs me positions all the way to turn 3 every lap. Bikes just bloody fly past me like im stopped. Vid should be up by the morning.

[BoB]

What shock do you have in yours Rob?

I'm rendering a video at the moment from race 6 on sat. You'll see every lap I get a shit drive out of 12 and it costs me positions all the way to turn 3 every lap. Bikes just bloody fly past me like im stopped. Vid should be up by the morning.

Running ohlins 25mm carts in the front and ttx in the rear . I have a Wp which has just been rebuilt if your interested , may need to put a different spring in it ,might have one of those too.

[BoB]

You'll see every lap I get a shit drive out of 12 and it costs me positions all the way to turn 3 every lap. Bikes just bloody fly past me like im stopped. Vid should be up by the morning.

i was looking at Oggy's vids and he smokes me out of T3 and T9 just about every time . He was taking these in 3rd and maybe quicker corner speed, I do T9 in 2nd. Maybe i need some bigger balls and start to wind on the gas a bit earlier .

[Marty]

i was looking at Oggy's vids and he smokes me out of T3 and T9 just about every time . He was taking these in 3rd and maybe quicker corner speed, I do T9 in 2nd. Maybe i need some bigger balls and start to wind on the gas a bit earlier .

I've thought about taking 9 in 3rd, must give it a try.

Did you see the vids I uploaded? After having the rear cam on I realized how much my slipping slipper was costing me through T1, i was basically coasting through it in neutral so I had to trail the front brake forever to hold it on line, then when I'd pick up the throttle it would flare up and slip. All the hard braking corners like 2 and 9 I was having problems with the lack of engine brake.

It makes me want to cry watching the vids, every time I hit the straight ill lose 1-3 positions.

I think the clutch stuff is under control I found the clutch springs (original from 2007) were under spec and the stack height is a little low. Both things together would explain the massive lack of engine braking. The plates aren't blue like they were after the drags, I was expecting to find carnage after 3 days of epic slippage.

I've been studying my vids closely and I just can't get over how bad a drive I get onto the main straight especially.

I'll send you a message about the shock mate.

[Marshy]

So maybe it's not the suspension, but the slipping clutch, Marty??

[Marty]

So maybe it's not the suspension, but the slipping clutch, Marty??

I think it's two different issues. Last weekend I was about half a second off the pace from last nov on average over the two days. I put that down squarely to the clutch slipping.

I've been struggling with corner exit for a longtime but never really identified it, I always put it down to the bike not having enough raw HP, but when comparing the videos etc and my observations on the track chasing Oggy and bob on the same bike it I think the bike can stand on its own with the power it's got (at least in the middle of the pack in clubby) but I'm just doing a extremely bad job of getting the power to the ground out of the high speed corners. It just has a vague feeling at the apex, I can get the throttle cracked nice and early before the apex, but I feel like I can't roll on the throttle and end up holding it at that 5% for too long which sends me wide which makes it even harder to open the gas, by that point the guy who's tail I was on is 30m up the straight! I see guys using half the track and still putting down more drive than me. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm far from a great rider and make mistakes etc but I still feel like there's a problem. I literally ride by feel and only push as hard as I feel I can at a given time. Maybe I should just grow a pair and open the throttle away.

[Mr.Ed]

I've thought about taking 9 in 3rd, must give it a try.




Been there, done that... I would not recommend it. T9 is the sort of corner you won't make a lot of time but you can definitely lose a lot there... I a had really short gearing (i.e. hit the limiter at the end of the straight for a good second) and even then it was faster doing T9 in second gear 'cause you need all the pulling power you can get out of it otherwise you need to push the front really hard to carry more speed there (higher risk of a lowside) and even then I still think it's faster to do it in 2nd. It's not like T2 where you can get away with doing it in 3rd gear 'cause it's uphill-ish and cambered properly so it allows you to carry a load of speed on the front wheel before it folds. T9 is pretty much the opposite... Downhill and off camber if you take the wrong line.

[chubb]

Been there, done that... I would not recommend it. T9 is the sort of corner you won't make a lot of time but you can definitely lose a lot there... I a had really short gearing (i.e. hit the limiter at the end of the straight for a good second) and even then it was faster doing T9 in second gear 'cause you need all the pulling power you can get out of it otherwise you need to push the front really hard to carry more speed there (higher risk of a lowside) and even then I still think it's faster to do it in 2nd. It's not like T2 where you can get away with doing it in 3rd gear 'cause it's uphill-ish and cambered properly so it allows you to carry a load of speed on the front wheel before it folds. T9 is pretty much the opposite... Downhill and off camber if you take the wrong line.

I agree with the rider who doesn't appear on the track riding. :)

[Mr.Ed]

Yes but the experience and knowledge I get from youtube is invaluable... hahahaha