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View Full Version : Grading for this years racing :)



Stu23
20-01-2014, 07:03 PM
ok everyone time to fess up..... who got re-graded, what did you get from MNSW this year 😊 Im assuming I'm staying in B grade...

Stu

JC
20-01-2014, 07:08 PM
Haven't got anything mate so I am still C grade.

DisPlaCeD
20-01-2014, 07:10 PM
No letter... D Grade... ;)

Marshy
20-01-2014, 07:19 PM
Did anyone get a letter?? I haven't heard of any gradings being done, and last year St George had a big 're-graded list' on the website prior to the first round, so that everyone could check their new grading prior to entering round 1....

Marshy
20-01-2014, 07:20 PM
I was kinda secretly hoping they'd send me an A grade letter :peace:

Stu23
20-01-2014, 07:26 PM
was hoping i might go back to C grade hahaha hmmm I think i might call them or email them....... Jan will kill us if we get it wrong eek

senator8
20-01-2014, 07:29 PM
I rang last week and they said grading was complete.
They only came back last week and apparently had 200+ license renewals in the mail or something. So maybe the grading letters are still coming.

Stu23
20-01-2014, 07:32 PM
They are leaving it late, but thats good information :) , hope they get the changes out in time for the 1st meeting or the gradings for the year are going to be stuffed

chubb
20-01-2014, 07:34 PM
I got graded up to C

Stu23
20-01-2014, 07:34 PM
might drop them an email or call them just to make sure i havnt gone back to C ;)

chubb
20-01-2014, 07:34 PM
It's all done and dusted. Just email or call them

Marshy
20-01-2014, 07:56 PM
might drop them an email or call them just to make sure i havnt gone back to C ;)

Yeah rite!!

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/23/2357aece289ba3296168a226769f1263a6e4d3197177ca0ecd 03e85dbf06f718.jpg

Stu23
21-01-2014, 07:24 AM
you never know ;)

lap times will be a bit slower if i have to peddle.... still no engine

Marshy
21-01-2014, 08:24 AM
Can't wait to see that!! ;)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/21/by5ety6a.jpg


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Rusty
21-01-2014, 09:47 AM
Just rang them and Grading Certificates are getting sent out today.

Make sure they have your current postal address.

Rusty
21-01-2014, 09:50 AM
I'm still B grade.

Marshy
21-01-2014, 09:53 AM
I'm still B grade.

Seems appropriate. You had it all over me in a couple of races in Nov :thumb: On a slower, older bike!

Rusty
21-01-2014, 10:19 AM
Seems appropriate. You had it all over me in a couple of races in Nov :thumb: On a slower, older bike!

Haha, I'm sure you were just foxing Marshy.

Stu23
21-01-2014, 10:44 AM
i need someone to help me peddle !! shorties need not apply i need longer legs for more speed !!!

Marshy
21-01-2014, 10:57 AM
i need someone to help me peddle !! shorties need not apply i need longer legs for more speed !!!

Calling Carl-52!!! He's purpose-built to pedal for you, Stu!!

Stu23
21-01-2014, 11:07 AM
hahaha think they will allow it...... hes got his MA licence

Carl-52
21-01-2014, 03:43 PM
build be a set of foot plates so i can put my feet up down the straight and engage the tow hook...

JC
21-01-2014, 03:49 PM
Bumped to B grade this year. WTF??
Say goodbye to to any chance of finishing in the top 50 this year

Negrogrande
21-01-2014, 04:33 PM
Bumped to B grade this year. WTF??
Say goodbye to to any chance of finishing in the top 50 this year

you are super fast JC, you will do alright. also they grids fro clubsport unlimited weren't that big at least at the last round
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/637019893/object_30889744.88z/Result?17

reminds me that I need to renew my MA license

BoB
22-01-2014, 11:57 AM
mailbox had a large envelope from mnsw .Opened it to discover a nice grading certificate with...

D on it ...:cheer::thumb::clap:;):happy::whistle:

chubb
22-01-2014, 12:19 PM
I think they made a mistake... :whistle:

Marshy
22-01-2014, 12:58 PM
mailbox had a large envelope from mnsw .Opened it to discover a nice grading certificate with...

D on it ...:cheer::thumb::clap:;):happy::whistle:

http://www.circleskyrecords.com/Local/Whatthe%20Album%20Cover.jpg

Marty
22-01-2014, 01:28 PM
I was told I would be in D also, will check the letterbox for confirmation tonight.

Phat3R
22-01-2014, 02:58 PM
I too got a D in the mail today. :)

Saturnalian
22-01-2014, 04:16 PM
C- I guess i'm gonna have to go faster than you now BoB

BoB
22-01-2014, 04:30 PM
C- I guess i'm gonna have to go faster than you now BoB

What the ?... C for you jamie , now your going to have to get a spare bike and push it a bit more . That one you have is way too nice to race , put it back on the road and get an 08 to come out with us in clubsport.

Saturnalian
22-01-2014, 04:48 PM
I tried to get a sneaky clubsport bike a couple of weeks ago. I pulled the pin at $4800. It went for $4900. Looks like 2016 it is for me. Mine is 01/10


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dan
22-01-2014, 07:21 PM
Didn't get a letter :(

chubb
22-01-2014, 08:03 PM
Maybe tomorrow. I didn't get mine either.

Marshy
22-01-2014, 08:07 PM
It's a pretty archaic system, isn't it..... everyone sitting at the mailbox, waiting for a letter to arrive - or not. If everyone got a letter each year, that would be one thing; if you didn't receive a letter, you knew it went missing in transit. But if it's only some people (and it's at a random time each year), who knows whether you are regraded or whether the postal system was lazy/incompetent and lost or misplaced or misdelivered your letter.

A list on the website, and an email to licence holders telling them when the list had been published, would make much more sense in this day and age. Quicker, cheaper and much more reliable. Or am I wrong?

chubb
22-01-2014, 08:15 PM
I think it was Rick that had a email from MA saying after 3 races in D grade you automatically go up to C.

Some people stay 2 years in D (like McCarthy) and some people go up to C after 1 race (Little Mick)

it makes no sense how they actually work out their magic formula.. (maybe its just a lucky dip)

Im in C this year because I called up not waiting for the magical letter

dan
22-01-2014, 08:58 PM
grading thread redux!

Phat3R
22-01-2014, 09:49 PM
Following the last St George meeting I attended, where the club said "grading nothing to do with us, speak to MNSW". I emailed MNSW twice asking for information regarding the grading process. I have never received a reply to either email. MNSW's lack of consultation and explanation regarding grading with and for those involved is simply atrocious. They only have themselves to blame for people referring to 'their system' as a lucky dip, they provide no explanation or transparency.

I'd actually hold this up as an 'anti pattern' with regard to how NOT to do grading. In my opinion there should be a checklist that is ticked and then an explanation of the marking scheme that results in a specific grade. For the sake of transparency everyone should be able to see 'the working out', not just the final magic answer, both for themselves and others.

The fact this comes out a week before St George rnds 1 & 2 is yet another example of how poor the admin is ... anyone that's changed grade now has to contact St George and modify their entry ... it's pathetic and incompetent.

dan
22-01-2014, 11:38 PM
I actually did get a letter. D Grade :(

motorbiker
23-01-2014, 07:10 AM
Well done Dan? :noidea:

I think Marshy is well versed in the lucky dip/pull a name out of a hat draw that is MNSW grading...

But just think, even if they get 50% wrong they've still got 50% right. Glass half full approach

motorbiker
23-01-2014, 07:13 AM
A list on the website, and an email to licence holders telling them when the list had been published, would make much more sense in this day and age. Quicker, cheaper and much more reliable. Or am I wrong?

Forget which state, but one state MA body actually does publish a gradings list on their website (found it when I was searching online for ours a couple of weeks back before I put in my st george entry).

In this day and age there isn't really an excuse. And if privacy is a concern (really can't see how it would be) then it could be displayed by club membership #.

Marshy
23-01-2014, 07:42 AM
St George actually did it for the first time last year.

Phat3R
23-01-2014, 10:48 AM
I actually did get a letter. D Grade :(

What else were you expecting Dan? Enjoy the D whilst you can ... this time next year we should all get bumped to C.

Phat3R
23-01-2014, 10:50 AM
And if privacy is a concern (really can't see how it would be) then it could be displayed by club membership #.

I can't see a privacy angle on this at all???

mercho
23-01-2014, 11:18 AM
I got the letter today, moved to B.. No $2 trophies this year lol

senator8
23-01-2014, 11:58 AM
I got the letter today, moved to B.. No $2 trophies this year lol

Protest Chubbs C grading ;)

mercho
23-01-2014, 12:00 PM
Protest Chubbs C grading ;)

haha he definitely should be there if I am!!!

senator8
23-01-2014, 12:04 PM
haha he definitely should be there if I am!!!

I'm writing the letter for you now. How he feels it's unfair you're best mates and want to continue to race together. How he's only got a stock motor and everyone else has got cams and head work. He wants to be B just like you and JC.

Sign and send - all done :)

JC
23-01-2014, 12:08 PM
Hahahahaha

mercho
23-01-2014, 12:09 PM
BAHAHAHHAAH - waiting for him to chime in, where are you Chubb?

chubb
23-01-2014, 12:13 PM
awww its a bloody plot against me! :cry:

I think Ed has already written a letter to MNSW to put me up to C seeing how unfair it all is..

I will protest the B upgrade as I want a chance to win some $2 trophy!:third:

chubb
23-01-2014, 12:15 PM
I'm writing the letter for you now. How he feels it's unfair you're best mates and want to continue to race together. How he's only got a stock motor and everyone else has got cams and head work. He wants to be B just like you and JC.

Sign and send - all done :)

I need to win lotto to do some motor work... :hat:

mercho
23-01-2014, 12:17 PM
I need to win lotto to do some motor work... :hat:

Pretty sure mines stock, or did you do some sneaky work to it JC??? (please say you did) lol

chubb
23-01-2014, 12:19 PM
well you got the likes of Marshy to compete with in B grade this year on his suber uber speccy R6 that puts out 160 HP

senator8
23-01-2014, 12:21 PM
I need to win lotto to do some motor work... :hat:

Just buy a motor already done or buy a 1000. Job done ;)

Just don't tell Baddie or he'll research it on the internet to show you're doing it wrong. If not for him I wouldn't know higher compression and slipper clutches don't work.

chubb
23-01-2014, 12:29 PM
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/chubb35/4ExUcKy.jpg (http://s1220.photobucket.com/user/chubb35/media/4ExUcKy.jpg.html)

Mr.Ed
23-01-2014, 12:56 PM
I think Ed has already written a letter to MNSW to put me up to C seeing how unfair it all is..



http://www.naomihall.com/uploads/2012/05/funny-pictures-evil-raccoon.jpg

Saturnalian
23-01-2014, 12:57 PM
I really like the way this threads unfolding


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dan
23-01-2014, 02:31 PM
What else were you expecting Dan? Enjoy the D whilst you can ... this time next year we should all get bumped to C.

It's exactly what I was expecting but I was hoping I got bumped but had no rational basis for thinking I would. Oh well, next year!

Marshy
23-01-2014, 03:23 PM
It's exactly what I was expecting but I was hoping I got bumped but had no rational basis for thinking I would. Oh well, next year!

Holy crap... someone call Guinness! We have two riders in the world that actually WANT to get graded up (and both in this thread, no less)!! This has never happened in the history of Aussie motorcycle racing!! Everyone else wants to go down a grade, or a least stay the same.....

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/media/6163363/OALogo-Article-580-327.jpg

Mr.Ed
23-01-2014, 03:27 PM
I'm happy to stay the same but just for one more year... that's also because I don't them to have to go to the trouble of creating a new E grade just for me. Even though I deserve it.

dan
23-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Holy crap... someone call Guinness! We have two riders in the world that actually WANT to get graded up (and both in this thread, no less)!! This has never happened in the history of Aussie motorcycle racing!! Everyone else wants to go down a grade, or a least stay the same.....

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/media/6163363/OALogo-Article-580-327.jpg

haha C grade and a (cheat) R6 would make me well happy

dan
23-01-2014, 03:34 PM
actually A grade would make me happy - got to start somewhere though!

chubb
23-01-2014, 03:35 PM
Again Ed :boink::boink:

http://i.imgur.com/aiM71js.jpg

Mr.Ed
23-01-2014, 04:12 PM
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8Fqej-Ba-B0lJHm28rYljEtS9hz6J6xEDEyBX-N4_ipKBJmle2w

Tristan
23-01-2014, 04:28 PM
Me to D :(


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senator8
23-01-2014, 04:32 PM
I'm a C...! I know some of you already knew that.

Marty
23-01-2014, 06:01 PM
It's exactly what I was expecting but I was hoping I got bumped but had no rational basis for thinking I would. Oh well, next year!

The reason is because of that thread where everyone insisted that all us newb D graders would be moved up to C. At the time we were arguing with it but we probably all spent the last few months "knowing" that we'd be C graders this year then when we get graded in D we get the feeling of disappointment.

Goes to show that the grading system really is a black box of mystery.

dan
23-01-2014, 07:23 PM
I've only done that one race weekend so not much of a surprise I guess. Hopefully by the end of the year I'll be at a solid C pace (at least!)

Marshy
23-01-2014, 08:39 PM
I've only done that one race weekend so not much of a surprise I guess. Hopefully by the end of the year I'll be at a solid C pace (at least!)

There's probably a sub-clause in the grading handbook that says something about needing to finish your first race meet for it to count :rofl: :pound:

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

Phat3R
23-01-2014, 09:10 PM
There's probably a sub-clause in the grading handbook that says something about needing to finish your first race meet for it to count :rofl: :pound:

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

He only missed the restart of the last race on the last day ... :)

dan
23-01-2014, 09:30 PM
There's probably a sub-clause in the grading handbook that says something about needing to finish your first race meet for it to count :rofl: :pound:

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

I finished it in the medical centre.

Marshy
23-01-2014, 09:40 PM
He only missed the restart of the last race on the last day ... :)


Pfft. Never ruin a good story with the truth! ;)

motorbiker
24-01-2014, 08:25 PM
So apparently Chubb has regraded me to B grade somehow. Not exactly sure how it happened, because I never got a letter in the mail and I even CALLED mnsw who told me I hadn't changed grades this year... But Chubb said so and it also seems that he's somehow managed to rig something with Jan...

On the positive side, Chubb won't be able to win a $2 trophy over me - different grades now. On the downside I expect to be the last placed B grade racer and to be overtaken by MANY C graders who are plenty faster than me (which will be humbling).

Marshy - if you ruled the world and grades were set according to lap times (apparently they are?), what lap times would you set to what grade (to keep it simple, lets keep it in SMP GP circuit terms)?

Leezx10r
11-12-2015, 07:54 AM
No more pink vest for me in 2016 [emoji57] C grade baby hehehe


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windy
11-12-2015, 08:06 AM
I like my pink vest.

Mstevo
11-12-2015, 10:26 AM
2016 grading list
http://www.stgeorgemcc.com/pdfs/roadrace/St%20George%20MCC%20RR%20Grading%20List.pdf

Marshy
11-12-2015, 01:02 PM
No more pink vest for me in 2016 [emoji57] C grade baby hehehe


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Well deserved mate!! Your times have dramatically improved lately.

I'm still B grade. I'm happy and sad about that.

Binksy
11-12-2015, 01:09 PM
So I have to race Mstevo now?? Man I didn't sign up for this shit :P

B grade and in 1000's for next year. Sounds like fun, but I'm glad I stocked up on $2 trophies this year.

Leezx10r
11-12-2015, 02:54 PM
Well deserved mate!! Your times have dramatically improved lately.

I'm still B grade. I'm happy and sad about that.

Thanks mate, times have dropped nicely, just need to work on the starts lol
B grade Marshy, that's great nothing wrong with that mate [emoji106]🏻
Looking forward to race session 2016


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Builda
11-12-2015, 03:44 PM
Started track riding feb this year to see if I would like it...UNDERSTATMENT...I did the last round of St George this year at smsp, doing RYM this weekend. ADDICTED. Doing all rounds next year for St George and hopefully fxrrc..... And yes pinky for me......Peter:peace:

simonr
11-12-2015, 04:20 PM
How the fck do they work them out??

I had my first race at st George in November and now they've put me up to b grade??

Marshy
11-12-2015, 04:25 PM
How the fck do they work them out??

I had my first race at st George in November and now they've put me up to b grade??

Jan throws darts at names stuck to a dart board. It's a joke.

What lap times were you doing?

You can protest the decision for a couple of weeks.

chubb
11-12-2015, 04:53 PM
Well deserved mate!! Your times have dramatically improved lately.

I'm still B grade. I'm happy and sad about that.

Didn't even race this year except for FX C/D grade. Some how I jumped all the way to the top.

Ruckos87
11-12-2015, 04:54 PM
Will be a vest for me, also in D grade.
doing RYM and see how I go. If I'm up to pace.


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simonr
11-12-2015, 06:06 PM
Jan throws darts at names stuck to a dart board. It's a joke.

What lap times were you doing?

You can protest the decision for a couple of weeks.

Pb in the 41s on a 600

Turbo
11-12-2015, 06:14 PM
Only managed one race meet that didn't require a helicopter evacuation, this year... so I'm still D :thumb:

Marshy
11-12-2015, 06:30 PM
Pb in the 41s on a 600

Yeah rite!! That's not hanging around. I reckon that's B grade :thumb:

Marshy
11-12-2015, 06:37 PM
Without thinking about it too hard, I'd reckon something like:

A grade <1:36
B grade <1:42
C grade <1:50
D grade >1:50

chubb
11-12-2015, 06:39 PM
C grade for me

Turbo
11-12-2015, 06:39 PM
Yeah, not currently done on times tho. How does one effectively combine experience and speed? Should they even be combined?

Turbo
11-12-2015, 06:40 PM
C grade for me

:pound:

Marshy
11-12-2015, 06:44 PM
C grade for me

Yeah of course. You run in TON's pick-your-own-grade series. You were doing 37s last time out at the Creek, and it's not even your local track. C grade my ass.

Leezx10r
11-12-2015, 06:44 PM
Without thinking about it too hard, I'd reckon something like:

A grade <1:36
B grade <1:42
C grade <1:50
D grade >1:50

Is that 300 ninja class?

Marshy
11-12-2015, 06:45 PM
Is that 300 ninja class?

The old Ninja 250. Keeping it real.

Leezx10r
11-12-2015, 06:45 PM
The old Ninja 250. Keeping it real.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

chubb
11-12-2015, 06:54 PM
Yeah of course. You run in TON's pick-your-own-grade series. You were doing 37s last time out at the Creek, and it's not even your local track. C grade my ass.

St George sees the light putting me in A then??? C grade for AASA next year still though ... ;)

Builda
11-12-2015, 06:56 PM
R those times for 600 or big boys

Marshy
11-12-2015, 08:06 PM
R those times for 600 or big boys

Big bikes. Add, say, a second for 600s.

Linden
11-12-2015, 08:16 PM
D grade >1:50

Does that mean I can get relegated back to D .... actually bugger that don't want no stinking vest


Big bikes. Add, say, a second for 600s.

missed that bit so how many secs for me ... (actually plan on getting Wayne to ride mine one day to see what an absolute time would be :eek: )

Little Mick
11-12-2015, 09:03 PM
that was cause they missed it last year Chubb :P

zoidberg
12-12-2015, 07:57 AM
I did a whole race meeting and I'm still D. I might have to check my phone, it seems that yamaha still haven't called me for a WSBK or MotoGP ride?

Marshy
12-12-2015, 11:22 AM
I might have to check my phone, it seems that yamaha still haven't called me for a WSBK or MotoGP ride?

I'm sure they've been trying. I'd suspect Telstra is the culprit here.

dan
15-12-2015, 05:00 PM
D Grade still. Probably right. I've gotten slow[er].

Carl-52
15-12-2015, 09:42 PM
C for me now... seems about right, i had an awesome year at the sharp end of D grade. no more pink tho

Dunno
16-12-2015, 04:36 AM
I checked the list. I've not raced since 2012 & I'm C grade. It's a gee up!!!

Wolfie57
16-12-2015, 10:26 AM
Guys you are trying to read too much into the grading system - it is totally random!!

There is NO magic formula and if you ask for an explanation of why you're grade has changed they can't provide it. I tried last year after I was made a B grade after one year of racing and they couldn't give me an adequate answer. I appealed but was pretty much told it was pointless so after a month of not hearing anything back told them to forget it.

The main problem is that the rider has no control over it and then they cop all the abuse from other riders saying it isn't fair, Anthony Saad being the best example, he didn't ask to be kept in D grade, he was embarrassed about it and then everyone bitched and moaned saying it wasn't fair because they couldn't beat him.

This is also why Terry O'Neill ignores your MA grading as he thinks its so flawed (saying that there was some dubious C&D riders in FX)! :tape:

Nelso
16-12-2015, 03:31 PM
I'm still a C grader.:D I don't think I will be C grade in historics though after this year. I've already been warned from the club secretary to expect a jump in grade.

zooker
16-12-2015, 09:22 PM
No more pink vests for me either, and only afer one St George weekend on a temporary MA licence :D

Krackeye
16-12-2015, 10:14 PM
I've maintained a C average. :cheer:

Marshy
17-12-2015, 08:28 AM
No more pink vests for me either, and only afer one St George weekend on a temporary MA licence :D

Yeah, and totally deserved with your laptimes :thumb:

Marshy
17-12-2015, 08:29 AM
I'm still a C grader.:D I don't think I will be C grade in historics though after this year. I've already been warned from the club secretary to expect a jump in grade.

You've improved markedly this year. B grade for sure.

Binksy
17-12-2015, 08:57 AM
No more pink vests for me either, and only afer one St George weekend on a temporary MA licence :D

Think your lucky not to be B grade!

Petefrost
01-01-2016, 10:46 PM
Guys you are trying to read too much into the grading system - it is totally random!!

There is NO magic formula and if you ask for an explanation of why you're grade has changed they can't provide it. I tried last year after I was made a B grade after one year of racing and they couldn't give me an adequate answer. I appealed but was pretty much told it was pointless so after a month of not hearing anything back told them to forget it.

The main problem is that the rider has no control over it and then they cop all the abuse from other riders saying it isn't fair, Anthony Saad being the best example, he didn't ask to be kept in D grade, he was embarrassed about it and then everyone bitched and moaned saying it wasn't fair because they couldn't beat him.

This is also why Terry O'Neill ignores your MA grading as he thinks its so flawed (saying that there was some dubious C&D riders in FX)! :tape:

I agree with Wolfie57. He's a tops bloke an' all that!


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Turbo
01-01-2016, 10:51 PM
Guys you are trying to read too much into the grading system - it is totally random!!

There is NO magic formula and if you ask for an explanation of why you're grade has changed they can't provide it. I tried last year after I was made a B grade after one year of racing and they couldn't give me an adequate answer. I appealed but was pretty much told it was pointless so after a month of not hearing anything back told them to forget it.

The main problem is that the rider has no control over it and then they cop all the abuse from other riders saying it isn't fair, Anthony Saad being the best example, he didn't ask to be kept in D grade, he was embarrassed about it and then everyone bitched and moaned saying it wasn't fair because they couldn't beat him.

This is also why Terry O'Neill ignores your MA grading as he thinks its so flawed (saying that there was some dubious C&D riders in FX)! :tape:

Yeah, totes!!
I discovered earlier this year that NSW riders were ineligible for anything other than outright positions at the Pirelli Round at PI, as they literally laughed out loud at the MNSW grading system!! It's a total mess...

Metal-Man
02-01-2016, 01:46 PM
didn't do an STG meet (nor completed a race) an i went from C to B ;-)

Little Mick
02-01-2016, 05:59 PM
didn't do an STG meet (nor completed a race) an i went from C to B ;-)
SNAFU

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zooker
02-01-2016, 07:04 PM
Yeah, and totally deserved with your laptimes :thumb:

trick will be to figure out how I did it last time and try and repeat it haha

Metal-Man
02-01-2016, 09:10 PM
SNAFU

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ingrish prease?

Little Mick
02-01-2016, 09:11 PM
Situation Normal. All F'ed Up (SNAFU)

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Metal-Man
02-01-2016, 09:14 PM
Situation Normal. All F'ed Up (SNAFU)

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oh wait, i was only jokin

Little Mick
02-01-2016, 09:29 PM
oh wait, i was only jokin
what you described has all but happened Cam. Ask the Senator.......

Metal-Man
03-01-2016, 09:49 AM
lololololol