Trackday tyres that don't require warmers

[No_Style]

Hi All,

I'm contemplating doing a couple of CSS classes in the near future (i'm a newbie rider, run around in yellow group at EC trackdays). From what I have been told of how the days are structured, it's impractical to fit tyre warmers between track sessions and classroom sessions. My new track bike (08 Yamaha R6) has Metzler 'Racetech Slick' slicks on it (K1 front, K2 rear) and from what I can find its inadvisable to use these tyres without warmers, especially if you're only using them for short sessions where they hardly get to temp before cooling off again.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a decent track day tyre (that doesn't bust the bank) which can be run without warmers?

Even better, if anyone is selling some second hand ones that fit the above mentioned conditions, please let me know (I'm based in Sydney and I'm chasing 120/70 - 17 front and 190/60 - 17 rear).

Thanks,

Kris

[dan]

Hey mate I've got some road tyres that have plenty of life in them if you can't find what you are looking for. I think it's a 180 rear though. You prob want supercorsas or similar though, right? My mate might be looking to offload some q2s if you want me to ask?

[No_Style]

Hi Dan,

Preference is for something that's 'track' orientated (like Interact K2's or Superbike Pro's, probably not the Supercorsa though, I think those are meant to be used with warmers...). Having said that, the real aim is to be able to afford to do a CSS without having to spend a packet on tyres (similarly, to do the course without binning a bike because I got over zealous on cold tyres :D)

If you could ask after the Q2's that would be appreciated. I've run them on my old road bike at track days and they seemed fine for the kind of pace I was doing. If they aren't on their last legs, then I'm interested.
If nothing else comes up, I'll probably take you up on your road tyres though, probably a better option than race slicks without warmers. I have till end of October to find something, so no rush.

Cheers

[Tristan]

I have a set of Pirelli supper bikes Sc1and sc2 heaps of life left there all yours for $100

[Mr.Ed]

Honestly, save a little bit more money and buy the tire warmers already. In the end, it will save you money.

[CLIFFY]

Spend your $ on warmers instead then you've got them.
I did CSS with tyre warmers. A little bit of a rush but no prob.

[Little Mick]

+1 on the warmers... peace of mind and you are gonna need them soon enough :) and welcome :P

[Tristan]

It's well worth the money and there not to expensive.

[Little Mick]

Give Pete at Kanegs a call. He has been supporting guys at the track for a few years. He is also a member here. His warmers come with a 3 year warranty

[Tristan]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/04/egehu2yg.jpg
These are the warmers I do there $349 http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/04/8yvygejy.jpg

[Little Mick]

that didnt take long Tristan....

[Tristan]

To be honest I just think that my warmers a better and I am running a business but I pretty much sell every thing at cost to help every one out so it doesn't really bother me. Its just anther option to look at. And I don't sell cheap shit only quality items. That's all :)

[Little Mick]

Fair enough Tristan, but a friendly observation - the majority of your posts are about selling stuff... A few others here sell stuff as well but don't push it.

Food for thought. If you are running a business but sell everything at cost....might need to rethink your business strategy...

On with the Games

Cheers

Mick

[Tristan]

I only do to help people out because all the other places like MCAS are rip offs and this is a small group and I know a fair amount of the people on here I don't offer such cheap prices any where else still cheap but not as cheap.

Thanks for the input though

:)

[Marshy]

Fair enough Tristan, but a friendly observation - the majority of your posts are about selling stuff... A few others here sell stuff as well but don't push it.

+1 (thanks Little Mick). I've been meaning to talk to you about this for a while now. Just fyi, Pete from Kaneg is a mate too, and has been for years.

On that subject, there aren't any rules about posting stuff for sale (this isn't that other forum), but a 'fair use' policy applies. For the record, nobody selling stuff has yet offered to chip in for the fairly substantial site costs....

And come to think of it, I don't think I've ever posted offering quickshifters, custom painted fairings, clipons, levers, kangaroo-hide gloves, or even racebikes for that matter. Just sayin' ;)

[chubb]

Back on topic,

I would bang on roadies for schools like CSS and Top Rider..

my 2C

[Jashdown]

Probably not much point using slicks in yellow group, you wouldn't be getting much out of them.

Get a set of road tyres. I had no trouble sitting at the top of green group with a second hand, almost completely worn set of Pirelli diablo Rosso corsas... The benefit of road tyres is that they take about 3 turns to heat up and they offer more grip than the mildly warm slicks you're using.

[Little Mick]

Probably worth thinking about the pace you will be doing as well... most CSS sessions are slower pace so keeping heat in tyres will be an issue regardless.. having said that, I have used warmers at CSS and had no probs.. I was using R10s (treaded slick) which have sipes and heat up/ maintain heat easily enough..

[Mr.Ed]

My only issues with recommending a road tire over a race spec one are that:

1-I don't know the rider and have no idea of his pace. So he can be a fast yellow group rider but with no track experience. This means he'll get up to speed in no time and will probably be pushing that road tire to a more than comfortable limit (to his experience) at least a couple of times per session

2-Using a more race focused tire (say, Race DOT) gives you a bigger safety net over a road tire almost regardless of your pace. I say 'almost' because if you're not putting heat into them then you might be better off on a road tire but that can be adjusted with tire pressures in most part. However, if the rider is a slow yellow group rider (bordeline white) then yes, road tire would probably be preferred. But only then and untill he picked his pace a bit. After that, a race spec tire will save his bacon when he gets a messy corner entry/chop the throttle/too hard on the exit/overestimate his braking point/etc. It prob won't make him faster, just a bit safer.

[No_Style]

Thanks for the feedback all. Interesting to hear you managed with the warmers Cliffy, cheers. The bike has slicks on it simply because that's what was on it when I bought it (I have warmers, they came with the bike).

This thread comes about simply because one of the boys who had done the CSS class and took his stands and warmers out, found that he was too rushed to fit them between track sessions. Any 'performance' oriented tyre is fine, be it 'road' or 'track'. I've done all my other track days on Dunlop Sportmax Qualifiers (older ones, not the Q2's) and it hasn't killed me yet.

As others have mentioned, the concern is getting the tyres up to their operating temp and keeping them there given how the classes are run (I'm not really concerned about the specific brand or type of tyre, just that I'm using whatever I have under the type of conditions its designed to work under, and full race slicks aren't designed to be used without warmers in a stop start fashion - I know that much :)). I tend to do a slow first lap anyway cause I'm a pussy :D

I'm probably middle of the pack in the yellow group (group pace seems to vary a lot form day to day though, so it's not a great measure). I think my lap times average around the 2:27-2:30 mark for the full EC circuit (probably +/- a few seconds depending on levels of traffic I encounter and whether or not I'm having a good day or a rubbish day!). Definitely not up at Green group pace, I think they would be about 10 seconds or so faster than me, consistently, per lap.

[Mr.Ed]

If it's just for CSS, then by all means, chuck some roadies on if you want... it won't make a difference. I did lv1 on old slicks and no warmers on and was fine. Just make sure to get some heat on them before you start pushing... it's a bit harder when you can't use the brakes though.

[No_Style]

Yeah really is just for CSS, obviously Cliffy found time for the warmers, but I'd rather not rely on that happening for me given I've heard to different points of view. I'll just try and dig up some road road/track type tyres.
For normal track days, whack it up on stands and warmers, no probs there.

The only reason I mentioned 190/60 is because that's the profile of the slick that's on there, and I wanted to keep the handling character as similar as possible between CSS and my own track days when I may as well put the slicks on (figure consistent feel could only help, right?)

From a riders point of view, do you guys notice any difference in handling between a 180/60 (or 180/55) and a 190/60 (or 190/55), or is it only a bee's dick of difference in the real world?

[Mr.Ed]

There's a difference and you'd notice too but only at speed... I don't think I'd notice it at CSS pace. Also, I forgot to say, I sort of regretted not bringing my warmers when I did CSS as I found there was more than enough time to use them...

[Marshy]

From a riders point of view, do you guys notice any difference in handling between a 180/60 (or 180/55) and a 190/60 (or 190/55), or is it only a bee's dick of difference in the real world?

I don't notice a difference at all, and I'm pretty in-tune with what the bike is doing (and get around the track fairly quickly). On my FireBlade, I noticed the 200 versus the 190 massively!! But on the R6es, I don't notice between a 180/whatever, a 190/whatever, or a 195. Mind you, I usually jack the rear up or down beforehand to compensate for the difference in rear height.

[Tristan]

I'm the same I have had the 180s & 190s on the rear and 120s 125s couldn't really tell to much difference the 125 Bridgestone on the front seams to be a bit more stable. But I think it's just down to preference with what ever suits you best just try heaps of different tires and stick with the one that best suits your riding and budget :(

[No_Style]

Okay, thanks all.

I'll just dig up some used road tyres for the course for my own piece of mind. I'll take the stands and warmers, if I can use them that's great and if I can't, well at least I won't be skating around on cold race tyres :)
Sounds like I don't need to be overly worried about the tyre dimensions, at least, not for my purposes and pace.

Cheers

[CLIFFY]

Stop
Stands
Warmers
Out to the coach
You'll be fine so long as you don't dawdle

[chubb]

From a riders point of view, do you guys notice any difference in handling between a 180/60 (or 180/55) and a 190/60 (or 190/55), or is it only a bee's dick of difference in the real world?

I found no difference between a 180/55 to a 190/55 but did find a difference between the 180/55 to the 180/60

Weird I know.. I still have chicky strips on the 180/60

[No_Style]

... I still have chicky strips on the 180/60

Hmmm, I better avoid 180/60's then or I'm really screwed!

[chubb]

it was my first day trying em out.. I'm due back out twice this month so I'll probably make them disappear.. finger's crossed:lie:

Intial impressions is that they have very good side grip and I find they don't spin up as easily as the bridgy 180/55 I had which is good!

[CLIFFY]

You'll lose the strips no prob. I'm left with between 0 & 3 mm max on 190/60

[KANGA]

You'll lose the strips no prob. I'm left with between 0 & 3 mm max on 190/60
Cliffy did you mention to me a while back you had a mate with a set of Pirelli SBK pro tyres he was looking to get rid off? Might be a good choice for CSS since warmer use isn't essential to use them.

[CLIFFY]

He offloaded them when he sold his k5 kanga.
I'm not a fan of the pro. Breaks traction without warning.
Continental slicks broke traction easily too, but had a great feel about them by comparison. Great set for sub $400 fitted for anyone doing upto 2:17ish full track cause they're cheap, predictable and doubt they'll even slip until about that high teens anyway.
Fun tyre for those times. Shit tyre for any faster.

[dan]

I've got a SBK rear that I'm willing to offload

[dan]

Sorry SBK pro rear 180

[Phat3R]

At CSS your gear limited & no use of brakes for most of the day ... till last session ... idea is to slow riders down so they get the time to learn, so a production tyre is ideal. I've kept the original Q2's that came with the bike, which are good for CSS days, and CSS instructors use to / still do run Q2's too.

Mon & Tue CSS have some showers currently forecast according to BOM ... so another reason for looking at something with some tread for when they put the "wet track" sign out, and everyone with slicks is looking depressed.

Mega have a special right now where they are selling the Dunlop Sportmax D211 GP Racer for $420-$470 a set (fitted I believe) and then giving you a ride day for just $99. Have no eye dear if these tyres any good, but deal seems OK?

In my experience, there is time for fitting warmers for L4 ... but L1-3 can be a bit of a rush, come in, find instructor, get 20 seconds of feedback (because the guy before you won't stop nattering), often then get herded straight up stairs for class. Do get a break after class and before you go out, could fit warmers then but tyres would have cooled. Sometimes it's break then class so that can work.

Have fun ... most jealous ... I'd do another but they are booked out.

[CLIFFY]

The trick is to fit the warmers instead of listening to the other two dribble irrelevant crap

[KANGA]

Can anyone tell me if CSS has tyre changing facilities on the day? Possible showers for Wednesday and I have the slicks fitted at the moment. Will switch back to my old rosso2 roadies early if they don't/weather forecast doesnt change.

[CLIFFY]

Madaz will be there

[Nelso]

Leanne and I both did CSS with slicks and warmers and had no problem putting them on in time. If you are quick at getting them on you can do it before your post session talk, if not, just put them on after the talk before you head up to the next classroom session.

As others have said, it's harder to keep the temp in the tyres when you are riding slow, so you are better off with road tyres for that reason. I did level two CSS on DOT approved track tyres and even though they let me out in the wet sessions they were extremely slippery, so again, you are better off with road tyres.

For level 3, I went out on slicks because I was worried about putting road tyres on my track bike and forgetting I had less grip than usual, but the instructor struggled to keep up with me and nearly highsided following me through turn 6 when I could only use two gears and no brakes. By the end of the day when I could use some brakes, he couldn't keep up any more. Another reason just to fit road tyres.

At the end of the day, you are there to slow down and learn new things, so there is no need for anything other than road tyres, but if the only things you have are slicks, don't stress about using them with the warmers as it's been done plenty of times before, it's just a bit more of a hassle.

[Marshy]

Great summary Nelso! Good info. And I love how the instructors are way slower than you! ;)

The old adage is true then.....

http://www.thequotefactory.com/irep/en/5/54BVR0R0ST4SQ_7K60_BB_P_LS.jpg

[Nelso]

You do know that I'm a teacher, don't you?:boink:

[Marshy]

:doh: I forgot!! But that's different.

[Mazabuzz]

I remember doing CSS lvl3 with JC and the instructor giving him a earful because he was riding too fast and he couldn't keep up