Rear brake when cornering.

[stevem]

In the thumb brake thread something Owen said got me thinking about using the rear brake in the corner to help turn the bike. How many guys do this and when or what type of corners? I started using the rear coming off turns to help keep the front down and has made a big difference to lap times but not so much in the turn to help get it turned. What are people doing they find helps?

[Marshy]

This is what got me looking for a thumb brake in the first place. I WANT to be doing this (rear brake going in, mid corner, and out again),but I can't get my foot on the lever.

[stevem]

What type of corners in particular Nick or all corners? I was thinking mainly slower corners, what are others doing?
.

[Ruckos87]

I had Alex Cudlin for a one on one coaching day a while back. He really pushes it, I honestly hadn't used it at all till then.
Rear break at 70% every Cnr he told me. consequently I've started to use it in all cnrs but rights are difficult, very unsettling scraping the toe.

What I believe, we're the advantages (for me anyway) was Firstly later breaking. )I wasn't using it at all) secondly It settles the bike. Then if your at 70% pressure and running wide you can apply greater pressure to tighten your line.

There properly heaps more to but that's was how I recall it being explained to me.


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[stevem]

Thanks for that Plumb interesting insight. Definitely worth looking into.

[Nelso]

Since I have a high seat and higher bar height, I need to use the rear brake before applying the front brake when I'm braking hard, or I pick the rear tyre up too easily. I started using my rear brake a lot more after doing a bit of dirt track; it hasn't made me any faster, but it has helped me to be in more control and handle when things go wrong a lot better.

[Turbo]

In the thumb brake thread something Owen said got me thinking about using the rear brake in the corner to help turn the bike. How many guys do this and when or what type of corners? I started using the rear coming off turns to help keep the front down and has made a big difference to lap times but not so much in the turn to help get it turned. What are people doing they find helps?

I didn't use it at all on the R6 but since getting on the BMW it seems essential. I remember overhearing Glenn when Pete Frost had him for a day, just pointing to the whole track pretty much, saying where to use it. If you've ever followed Glenn through a corner or two on his road R1, you can see the brake light come on in all kinds of weird places. Wolfie, I think it was you that told me how many rear pads the Yamahas go through of a weekend!! Mental!!
My biggest issue, as I mentioned, is my right angle injury that makes using the foot brake pretty tricky. I've high hopes the thumb brake will help!

[stevem]

The last six months I had the Beemer I was using it on exit of corners and it gained me half a second. I'll have to look into using it mid corner to get it turned cause there is defitely more to be had there.

[nigelnobody]

I reckon your on the right track Steve as the benefits are many v downside.
When building my Ninjia was quizzing Sean Condon about his setup.
He basically said leave it stock as you dont want to lock it,use it wherever you want to settle/turn the bike.
For his speed that would be a LOT,for me only couple places although i am keen to see if it helps to tidy hard braking into 2.
Those with Auto blipper and Engine braking control prob have less issues.

[Krackeye]

I had Alex Cudlin for a one on one coaching day a while back. He really pushes it, I honestly hadn't used it at all till then.
Rear break at 70% every Cnr he told me. consequently I've started to use it in all cnrs but rights are difficult, very unsettling scraping the toe.


AC was also mentioning this at a track day. I quizzed him on what he does in the right handers. Says he has to twist his foot and use the side of his foot to increase clearance.
He also mentioned that he has had many opportunities to use a thumb brake but has declined as he reckons he would love it so much that he couldn't go back to a foot brake.

[stevem]

It took me two years to get used to a quick shifter and now all this. Thanks for the replies guys, good brain food.

[Ruckos87]

Actually I recall him mentioning that. Oh well when he's crusing around at 35s on a stock Zx10 I suppose he can make just do [emoji85]


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[zoidberg]

AC was also mentioning this at a track day. I quizzed him on what he does in the right handers. Says he has to twist his foot and use the side of his foot to increase clearance.
He also mentioned that he has had many opportunities to use a thumb brake but has declined as he reckons he would love it so much that he couldn't go back to a foot brake.

That's a big call hey! Maybe when I do the thumb brake thing, I will piss the foot brake off altogether. I won't miss it, I think I maybe use it every now and then leaving the pits? On the old R1 I used it coming onto the straight to control wheelies, but I haven't even used it on the CBR yet...

Wolfie was telling me a while back just how often he uses the rear brake.

Just this year though, since Lorenzo has gone to Ducati, he has started using the rear alot as he NEVER used to use it. All down to personal preference maybe? Seems like a useful tool to have in the bag of tricks though...

I need me some AC or DC training that's for sure.

[Petefrost]

Owen, that conversation between Glenn and I was classified information, please return it forthwith, and forget that you ever heard it......forgettt...forgettttt....forgetttttttttttt t.....


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[stevem]

Don't worry about Pete Owen he'll forget soon enough , what is that ammonia smell, who am I , oh time for my warm milk. Silly old bugger. So what is actually happening when you apply the rear brake to turn the bike, is it squating the rear end of the bike or why does it work? Sorry Pete.

[Turbo]

Owen, that conversation between Glenn and I was classified information, please return it forthwith, and forget that you ever heard it......forgettt...forgettttt....forgetttttttttttt t.....


MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!! All the way to the bank...


Don't worry about Pete Owen he'll forget soon enough , what is that ammonia smell, who am I , oh time for my warm milk. Silly old bugger.

Bahahaha!! I wasn't even there, Pete! You must have forgotten your glasses.

[Petefrost]

Who ever was there......forgetttttttt.........forgetttttttttttt tt...

[Petefrost]

Steve, apparently it just settles the bike as it transitions off the front brake, it settles the suspension and magically pulls the bike in to tighten up your line, and generally smooths things out. Don't ask me how....it's just magic....(now you see it...now you don't.....see? Magic. )

[Marshy]

Who ever was there......forgetttttttt.........forgetttttttttttt tt...

That was me, Pete. Wait, was it? I forget..... ;)

I've tried and tried to reach the foot brake, and it's just not a thing I can do. I really WANT to be using the rear brake (on a litrebike I am TOTALLY reliant on electronics to not loop the bike over backwards), but I seem physically and mentally incapable of using the foot lever. I rode Lee's bike with a thumb brake for a couple of laps, and within half a a lap I was happily (and easily, almost automatically) using the thumb brake! It just feels right, to me.

The only time I use the foot brake is race starts, and I could probably switch to the thumb pretty easily for that too. Because there's the option to keep the foot brake, I've decided to do so, but if I was more budget conscious I could do without it pretty easily, I reckon.

For reference, this was me the other day trying out the new dash. I thought wheelie control was on, as normal, and this was the OUTLAP of the first session on a cold cold morning, so totes not accelerating very hard at all, in fourth gear. I would've sworn the electronics on the R1 weren't doing that much for me, especially as they aren't even in the same postcode as being as good as the racing Aprilia electronics. I thought I was goooooone! Thumb brake needed!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl0iIssti0U

[zoidberg]

Who do you think you are Ruckos??? I love that dash... Where is all the telemetry overlay from?

[Ruckos87]

Who do you think you are Ruckos??? I love that dash... Where is all the telemetry overlay from?

Bahahahaha mines from a cheep Garmin , that dash is next level !!!!


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[stevem]

Nick ,On the beemer I ended up bolting some aluminium onto the rear brake pedal so I could reach it around right handers. It ended up about 25mm higher than stock with the lever at maximum adjustment. I never took any photos of it and not sure if Condor is still using it or not but if he is check it out.

[Marshy]

Where is all the telemetry overlay from?

That's actually the built-in data from the new GoPro Hero 5 Black. Which, had I realised, almost mates the dash superfluous... but then again, those shift lights...... mmmmmmmmmm!

[Leezx10r]

That's actually the built-in data from the new GoPro Hero 5 Black. Which, had I realised, almost mates the dash superfluous... but then again, those shift lights...... mmmmmmmmmm!

Wait a minute. So the GoPro hero 5 black overlays all the data straight from the camera? Any fancy software?

Nick do you know what the feature is called on the GoPro? I will check to see if the new session has it, and if not I will grab the hero 5 black [emoji1303]


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[Marshy]

It's natively inbuilt to the camera. Just activate GPS mode and it does the rest. The only missing feature is a 'lap' function.... it treats multiple laps as one long run, without the ability to specify that you're lapping a circuit. Seems like a very very easy software update, if they could be bothered.

[Leezx10r]

It's natively inbuilt to the camera. Just activate GPS mode and it does the rest. The only missing feature is a 'lap' function.... it treats multiple laps as one long run, without the ability to specify that you're lapping a circuit. Seems like a very very easy software update, if they could be bothered.

Excellent thanks mate, looks like a hero 5 black it is as the other doesn't have location on it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170618/697f2138866fa25455fb3add0788fe94.jpg


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[Marshy]

It really is a nice bit of kit. The image stabilisation is good too.

[Turbo]

Wow, how's this for some 'when to use' from Scott Redding at Jerez... Looks like flippin everywhere!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS0KsDzII2E

[Wolfie57]

Sorry bit slow on a response - too busy changing nappies!

I use the rear brake everywhere on a 1000, never used it at all on a 600. It settles the suspension before braking hard into a turn, helps you keep a tight line in a corner, particularly if you have gone in too hot and then keeps the front down on the way out. If you watch someone like Glenn or Alex when they have a rear brake light it is on way before the corner and stays on until well out of the corner, they are just using varying amounts of pressure. In tight right handers like turn 1 at Wakey or turn 9 at EC you need to use the side of your foot which is difficult, faster right handers are fine. I've never thought about a thumb rear brake as I use the rear without thinking about it anymore but it would defo be easier to reach etc, my concern would be whether you still got good feel for the amount of pressure you are applying.
As someone mentioned though not all pro's use the rear brake so maybe it doesn't necessarily make you quicker, probably just smoother. For someone like me who has never done motocross/dirt track etc I don't like it when it feels out of control so it probably gives me more confidence.

[Petefrost]

Wow, how's this for some 'when to use' from Scott Redding at Jerez... Looks like flippin everywhere!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS0KsDzII2E

That's fucking awesome! How inspiring is that? I sometimes forget to use it but I'm definitely going to start using it everywhere.


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[Petefrost]

Wolfie needs a fumb brake....


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[Ruckos87]

Wow, how's this for some 'when to use' from Scott Redding at Jerez... Looks like flippin everywhere!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS0KsDzII2E

So what's more important trailing the rear into a turn or sticking the foot out[emoji6]
I don't know where to apply my effort now. I'm so confused

Edit or is there a thumb break in play as well????


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[Marshy]

This is why we need thumb brakes!!!


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[Marshy]

Good article about Dovi's thumb brake: http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/master-cylinder-ducati-dovizioso-brembo-brakes

[Wolfie57]

Sounds like the perfect compromise, bet it's expensive?

[Ruckos87]

Sounds like the perfect compromise, bet it's expensive?

$2800!!! And that's with out the valving to retain the foot break. Needless to say I've placed my IMA order already

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/1810e27948d300c4ff64d53bac6db786.png




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[Turbo]

It's not adjustable either. I reckon getting the lever in the right spot is essential to get comfortable with using it fully cranked over etc.

[Wolfie57]

Jesus, that's insane! I reckon Lee could have a good sideline selling his set up, just need to add the brake pedal......

[Marshy]

Jesus, that's insane! I reckon Lee could have a good sideline selling his set up, just need to add the brake pedal......

When the IMA ones start at $499, why bother making them? The sheer time it would take (not to mention the fabrication facilities and skills) would cost more than the IMA. http://superbikesource.com.au/products/IMA-Thumb-Brake.html

[Wolfie57]

When the IMA ones start at $499, why bother making them? The sheer time it would take (not to mention the fabrication facilities and skills) would cost more than the IMA. http://superbikesource.com.au/products/IMA-Thumb-Brake.html

IMA is quality stuff, love my Triples, you the importer now?

[Marshy]

Yes mate, we are the importer of IMA Special Parts :D

New stock has already arrived (not thumb brakes yet tho) and we will be stocking just about every make and model of parts here in Sydney.

[Wolfie57]

Good stuff mate, great brand!

Going out together again on Sunday didn't seem to work out too well! We'll have to reconvene at the end of July :fencing: