St George Round 3&4 Wakefield Park

[chubb]

Thingos are up.

who is going??

http://www.stgeorgemcc.com/pg_rrace.php

they increased the prices from last year as well.....

interestingly, 600 clubsport "no fuel injection allowed"

[Saturnalian]

Hey Rancell,

I know i'm repeating myself across forums but this is a huge call re clubsport.

Wouldn't this prevent all CBR 600's post 2003, all YZF-R6 post 2003, all ZX-6r post 2003, all GSX- R600 post 2001 and all triumph 650/675 post 2005 (all of them) from entering.

The people who have bought these bikes just for clubsport or are building them just for clubsport will all be very pissed.

On another note, I definitely hope to be there for both days.

[Little Mick]

not preventing them from entering - as they can still enter 600 - and compete with like powered bikes...
FXRRC has a break point at 2003 in effect doing the same thing..

I may be biased, but having my zx6 eligble next year does not make a whole lot of sense in the interest/ intent of the class. A current spec bike competing with the older machinery...30hp difference makes a big difference, especially in the right hands..

TBH, if I was building an 07 bike just to enter 600 CS, I would need to consider why wasnt I entering 600 as that is the class of bike?

I think its great for this to get out there - it gives a competitive class for the 95-03 bikes to play!

and the injected bikes are still competitive in the 600 class...

2c -

[Marshy]

Jan asked in a follow up email what kind of bikes people were riding. My reply:

Hi Jan,

I ride a fuel injected bike in Clubsport. I would support 'with' and 'without' subclasses, but I don't think it should be automatically 'no fuel injection', as the bikes would never get newer and it would be just the same as Retro and PCRA. The big attraction of Clubsport is that each year different bikes become more competitive as later models become eligible.

Cheers,
Nick

[Marshy]

they increased the prices from last year as well.....

Bit more than indexed inflation, isn't it ;)

[Stu23]

I have sent a mail to the club re the recent conversation re clubsports.

In essence, continue as is now, with a sub class in clubsports breaking at 2000 or 2002, the last of the conventional bikes ie RWU forks, None radial brakes etc. from 2000 or 2002 continue up to rolling years as it is now.

[Marshy]

I have sent a mail to the club re the recent conversation re clubsports.

In essence, continue as is now, with a sub class in clubsports breaking at 2000 or 2002, the last of the conventional bikes ie RWU forks, None radial brakes etc. from 2000 or 2002 continue up to rolling years as it is now.

Thanks Stu. Hopefully sanity prevails here, as Clubsport is St George's biggest class by quite a bit, and that's with the current rules. I only hope they don't ruin a good thing by capitulating to a vocal minority.

[Stu23]

exactly what i said in my email Nick........ plus an awful lot more.....

[Little Mick]

Thanks Stu. Hopefully sanity prevails here, as Clubsport is St George's biggest class by quite a bit, and that's with the current rules. I only hope they don't ruin a good thing by capitulating to a vocal minority. ahem.... that would be me :fencing: :peace:

So can anyone answer me this with hand on the heart.... what is the difference between Clubby and modern ? What is the intent?

[Marshy]

ahem.... that would be me :fencing: :peace:

That's ok mate; there's always one!
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/1689010432/hFB78B5F4/


So can anyone answer me this with hand on the heart.... what is the difference between Clubby and modern ? What is the intent?

Most people buy a new tracky/racebike every couple of years, and mostly the affordable ones are around 5 years old - that seems to be the magic sweet spot between price and age! As they get older than that, they don't usually get a lot cheaper, and newer ones retain more value for their first 3-4 years, then suddenly drop noticeably in price as they age beyond that. The idea is that these bikes are not the cutting-edge per se, but are still reliable and cheap. Admittedly the formula has been a bit disrupted by the GFC, and the fact that the bike manufacturers haven't updated their models in years, whereas the pre-GFC model cycle was every 2 years for a major upgrade. But we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, just because the GFC has created a dip 5 years ago that's just hitting us now.

The problem with fixing a class at a specific year model is that you never get any 'new blood' eligible, so the best/latest of the eligible models get hyper-inflated in price, waaay beyond a sensible value for their age and mileage. Think of Wetty's ZX7RRR that wins every single PCRA race meet it enters. That's $50k or more worth of bike (much more than any reasonable racebike from 1995 should have had spent on it), and no bike will EVER be faster than it!!!!

Another example (by lack of availability, rather than specific year model rules) is the 400cc class. As they don't make them any more, all the bikes are 20+ years old, done a million kays, but are still $5k to $10k; well over the value of a 5 year old, reliable, modern 600. Again, because there's no new bikes becoming eligible, the diehard few that race them are known to drop $10+ on just engine work. Madness!!

The great bit about clubsport rolling over each year is that newer, better models become eligible, that can then outperform the winners from the year before. Fourex sample, the 08 Blade is a weapon compared to the 07, and will take it to the R1s and ZX10s in unlimited next year. In the 600s, the R6 was favoured for the last couple of years, but next year the ZX6 is a much improved bike and will take the fight to the Yamahas. The CBR600 was substantially updated for 07 and is eligible this year, but nobody is seriously running them yet. As you can release a few extra ponies very cheaply and easily from the Honda (and there's not a rule saying you can't), anyone keen on running a CBR could pretty easily and cheaply have a race-winning bike, unlike the stock 600 class (not St George rules, but nobody builds a new-new 600 to just compete in St George, unlike a clubsport bike).

The other major, major advantage with a rolling annual model creep is the endless supply of new racebikes that become available to anyone wanting to run clubsport!! Also, guys that have owned a trackbike for a few years are now finding themselves eligible for a class that gives a better opportunity to score a higher result than competing with the A-grade kids with plenty of sponsorship and new bikes.

My $0.02

[Stu23]

See above Mick..........not current enough to take it to the newest and latest weapon, but bloody handy in the right hands capable of serious lap times........its what i think of clubsport as..... Fast and Affordable with a more ahem mature rider on it...

Not a Retro class or pre modern class

It has always been this way

[Stu23]

I might add that I have seen a carbie R6 do a 1.03 around wakey !! If the right pilot is aboard

[Little Mick]

That's ok mate; there's always one!
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/1689010432/hFB78B5F4/




Yep thats me :kev: :painkiller:


See above Mick..........not current enough to take it to the newest and latest weapon....

This is the sticking point for me.... with this as the intent...we essentially have current models able to compete in the class not intended for the current models (newest and latest weapon). Its this loophole that makes it a bit of a farce...not withstanding the older bikes may not be competitive, and the fact that any bike post '95 and pre 05 doesnt have a home to play competitively...

Point taken re the fixed era bikes Marshy - cost wise - definitely not the objective.... and agreed, you do need to keep things fresh enough to be relatively cost effective. And this could well be the consequence of the lack of model development among the manufacturers - so the auto roll over to the next year for the cut off, and using a 12/2xxx type cut off makes it all the more difficult.

Does anyone have the time to do a year by year dyno test on each model (or $$$ for that matter) just for the sake of a club classification? I doubt it... and you would hope that the spirit of the sport is maintained, without rule loophole exploitation - but then again- why have rules if you cant find loopholes to one's advantage....

How would you all feel if the cut off was a rolling cut off that also had a clause in there that indicated the bikes could not be current spec or had to be at least 8 years old if it was? i.e. it would need some clear definition and would become complex to administer im sure and many would say just leave it as it is..get a newer bike and all will be happy...

And Stu, I agree - the old R6 can be very effective in the right hands... dilemma- people with old R6s are usually starting out and the right hands usually move on to something with better handling and more power/ competitiveness...

not that putting a great rider on an Old girl doesnt show up a few, but the point gets made rather quickly.... Ryan and I at F Oz in the video I posted from Wacky last month...he is a faster rider than me, but you could see the obvious difference between the ZX6 and the R6 down the straight - ZX6 - stock everything..R6 suspension done, air filter done...

still only 2c worth and still loving the paint rubbing :)

No offence intended to anyone and none taken :)

Lets race...

[Stu23]

My 06 R6 would get blown away against a new zx6 or any other 2012 /13 model........... its the same for me my bike is now 7 years old, BUT I have clubsport to enjoy it in

[Stu23]

You have seen the or know of the spec of the 01 and 03 bikes in clubsport Mick.. I know of a gsxr in the class now that is putting out 115 bhp rw it is running full Yoshi kit systems , has been jigged to alter frame geometry etc . Wetty's kitted zx6 rrrrrrrr , do you think you will compete against that.

If they are going to split the class, then the most sensible year would be 2002

If you have an old bike, sometimes you must change, I did when I sold my 110 bhp rw white power ss spec 2000 R6, maybe I should go looking for it again

[Marshy]

How would you all feel if the cut off was a rolling cut off that also had a clause in there that indicated the bikes could not be current spec or had to be at least 8 years old if it was? i.e. it would need some clear definition and would become complex to administer

Probably easier just to do as Jan (and co) are suggesting, and make it carby and injected. Then have injected roll forward a year each year as before. I'd support an extra year older for the cutoff, so 6 year old model year (not compliance plate) and older. No more, because you really want to hit that sweet spot where bikes have significantly devalued (5 years is the current age for this), but not before they plateau in value or artificially increase due to specific eligibility for clubsport (the way that the current rules artificially inflate the price of year-models with a compliance plate late in the year before).

[Saturnalian]

Hey Marshy,

Haven't heard a whisper from you yet about what you're doing for the 4 hour.
So, whats the gos ?

J.

[Marshy]

Hey Marshy,

Haven't heard a whisper from you yet about what you're doing for the 4 hour.
So, whats the gos ?

J.

Good point mate! I have a habit of ignoring the vexed issue until very close to the event, and then panic to organise a team. I really wish it wasn't part of the overall point score....

This year I am a little more organised - sort of. Andrew Turner and I are teaming up, but we haven't yet talked in detail about whether we have another team member (we probably should), let alone who it might be.

What are your plans?

And other peeps - what's happening??

[chubb]

I'm looking for a 4 hour team.

anyone? I get around wacky in the 5s if that helps

[JC]

We need another rider. Greg and Albie broke their legs so we are looking for someone to compete in group 4. Aren't you in a group Chubb?

[chubb]

I am now.

[Marshy]

Earlybird entries close TOMORROW (Monday 8th). Get your entries in, people!

[Team Zero]

Booked! Thanks for the reminder marshy.

[Little Mick]

http://stgeorgemcc.com/pdfs/roadrace/2013/R4_competitors/RB%204%20Hour%20Race%20Entries.pdf

[Marshy]

Woohoo!! This shit just got real.

[Little Mick]

got a solid team there Marshy! Chris Rocks!

[Marshy]

got a solid team there Marshy! Chris Rocks!

I reckon!! :peace: :rockon:


http://t.qkme.me/3tzpqn.jpg

[Little Mick]

and on saaturday.....
http://stgeorgemcc.com/pdfs/roadrace/2013/R3_competitors/List%20of%20Competitors%20by%20Event%20as%20at%201 9th%20July.pdf

[chubb]

I should have entered clubsport d grade..

[chubb]

Wonder if I can enter last minute???

[Little Mick]

after a trophy Rance?

im sure yo can enter- send Jan a polite email and a phone call should do it... unlikely to turn away a member wanting to participate...

[chubb]

Of course not! ;)

[Little Mick]

seeing as you are entered already, you can cross enter/ change your entry easily enough..

[Marty]

Hey guys, new member here. I've been lurking here for a while.

I've entered for Round 3 (sat) for clubsport 600, it'll be my first race so I'm a bit nervous. Race number #84 according to that list :)

Cheers
Marty

[Little Mick]

Welcome Marty

[chubb]

Welcome! See you out there!

[AndrewTurner]

Your first race is always a nervous one, but once you get through the first turn the adrenalin kicks in and your racing, nerves gone, it's over to quick and you can't wait for the next one.


Hey guys, new member here. I've been lurking here for a while.

I've entered for Round 3 (sat) for clubsport 600, it'll be my first race so I'm a bit nervous. Race number #84 according to that list :)

Cheers
Marty

[AndrewTurner]

Forecast is looking good, no rain but predicting windy conditions.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/nsw/southern-tablelands/goulburn

[Marshy]

Forecast is looking good, no rain but predicting windy conditions.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/nsw/southern-tablelands/goulburn

Excellent! It's not even below freezing overnight....

[Team Zero]

Positively tropical.

[Baddie]

Good luck Boys and Girls over the weekend.


"Ride it like you stole it."...:first:

[Marty]

Did my first ever race yesterday! Stoaked!! I made it through in one piece, came last in most races but it was awesome all the same.

I knocked 1.5 secs off my PB in qualify straight away, backed it up in race 1 and made a couple of passes. The prob is everyone else got quicker and I progressively got slower throughout the day :s

I think I was trying too hard, I gotta study my footage and see where I went wrong.

Can't wait for the next one :D

[senator8]

Well done Marty. It's a great buzz yeah.
You and the bike in one piece = a good weekend.
It's not unusual to over ride the bike if you're trying to go faster. A step at a time the pace will come when ready.

[Mstevo]

The prob is everyone else got quicker and I progressively got slower throughout the day :s

I think I was trying too hard, I gotta study my footage and see where I went wrong.

Can't wait for the next one :D
Fatigue mate... both mental and physical
you need to train your brain and body so it knows what to expect :-) good luck in the future

[Marty]

Fatigue mate... both mental and physical
you need to train your brain and body so it knows what to expect :-) good luck in the future

Thanks mate, yeh it must be. It's weird usually at track days I'll get faster as I go, except for the last session. It's a long day though, I was busting my ass working on my bike all week after work aswell. By the time I had the thing scruitineered and on the warmers it felt like I'd won!

[Marshy]

Awesome weekend! Some top racing, marred by a few crashes, although nobody got seriously hurt thankfully. Several crashes were directly in front of me!! Videos to follow, when I get my good computer back in a few days - this old one just refuses to process videos :frusty:

[Little Mick]

Congrats on the placing Marshy. Well done to all who competed!! Great day out there!

[dan]

Ahhh wish I could have been there. Oh well, looking forward to November.

Nice work everyone!

[Stu23]

What a fantastic weekends racing, full of ups and downs..

Managed to knock off a heap on my lap times for some reason i still do not understand as i didnt feel i was doing anything radically different but down from low 107s to 104.7 !! Got a pole in clubsport and while the tyre was fresh managed to have a great race or 2 with Nick, thoroughly enjoyed myself.. In 600's I was on the front row all day and was just enjoying myself :) Ended Sat in 2nd place in clubsport and also 2nd in 600 open..

Sunday I was the 1st qualifier and just as i got out onto the track ( 1st one out ) it started to rain, so even though i was on a brand new tyre I just hammered it for as long as i could, and we managed to get into 2nd place for the start, you should have seen the teams faces :) top result..

As for the race, we ran around 4th , 5th and 6th all day, there were some big crashes, rain, oil..... everything !! I crashed on oil ( but not on the corner where it was but hte next one ) picked it up and continued and finally ran up the back of a gixxer on the start finish straight when he missed a gear.. luckily I got the scrunchie to the team over the wall so didnt lose much time..

We finished 2nd in 600's and 5th overall

Bit sore, bikes not too bad, now back at work :(

stu