Tyres

[windy]

G'day guys, I am looking at getting some intermediate tyres for the upcoming cold wet months at the track. I don't think I need full wets until I start racing.
Just wondering what you guys recommend and if anyone has anything lying around..
Cheers,
Nathan

[Marshy]

I have a set of Pirelli Wets on a set of rims, ready for damp conditions. These are the 'inter' tyre from Pirelli (as distinct from the Rain tyre, which is confusingly their wet tyre). I haven't actually had the opportunity to try them yet, but they look and feel like the goods!

The other great option for an intermediate tyre (most race guys do this) is to use old wets that are a bit torn up. They are perfect for the damp, and it doesn't matter if you destroy them!

Road tyres are next to useless on track in the wet/damp. You might as well be on slicks.

[Tristan]

Hey marshy have you got another set I could grab cheers Tristan

[Negrogrande]

Hey marshy have you got another set I could grab cheers Tristan
+2

[Marshy]

I've got a good used set of Dunlops for $200. I've also got a brand new set of Pirellis that are really for me, but I could be persuaded to give them up to help out you guys for this wet week. Will sell them at cost, which was about $500 (I will check the paperwork to confirm, if anyone needs them).

If you bring rims over, I will fit them for free.

[Negrogrande]

I'll take the dunlops off your hands

I'll grab them on Thursday morning do we have a TT garage?

[Marshy]

I'll take the dunlops off your hands

I'll grab them on Thursday morning do we have a TT garage?

Sorry mate, Tristan was PMing me last night and this morning, and turned up very shortly after my post to get them fitted. The dunlops are gone. I can still sort you out with the Pirellis if needed.

Yes, we will have a TT garage on Thursday! I'll confirm the actual garage number shortly.

[Negrogrande]

damn too slow,

new ones might be a bit rich for me, will see how it pans out

cheers,
Andrew

[Condor]

Hey Marshy can you plz post them trye recommendations you where saying the other day. Cheers mate

[Marshy]

Thanks for the reminder!

Ok, so for the front, the tyre to get is the Dunlop KR106 "UK Ntec" (known as that because it's made in the UK, unlike D211s which are made in France, and KR448/449s which are made in the USA, known as "US Ntecs"). With the KR106, you must get the 302 compound, as the other 2 compounds are too soft and wear out very quickly. The 302 will last roughly forever, and are still the best gripping front tyre on the planet. Honestly, you can do things on the front Dunlop that would have you sliding down the track on any other tyre.

There's plenty of choice in rear tyres. The Bridgestones are very good, particularly the 'old' tyre (the R04). The new V01 has silly amounts of grip initially, but goes away after only 10 laps or so, whereas the R04 isn't as outright grippy but is very consistent over the whole life of the tyre.

The Pirelli rears are good for track day riding, particularly the SC2. They don't have massive outright grip, but they last forever and are consistent. It's currently too cold to be running an SC1 rear anyway (although the fronts are reversed, and you should be running an SC1 front in this weather, and an SC2 front when it's much hotter).

I've heard the rear Metzlers are a good thing, but I haven't tried them yet. Similar to the Pirellis, as they are made in the same factory.

But these are all slick tyres. The thing to bear in mind is that for track days like Thursday (or all of this week by the sound of it), the organisers won't let you out on a damp track. So if you don't race and only do track days, a treaded tyre is probably the way to go. In that case, there are the equivalent Dunlops to the KR106 and 108, which are the UK Supersports tyre. Exxy, but awesome.

Some guys love the Bridgestone R10s (eg Stu23), but I'm personally not really a fan for racing. Again, awesome initial grip, but the grip doesn't last the life of the tyre. Great for track day pace though.

Then the Pirelli SuperCorsas are essentially the equivalent of the Superbike slicks, but with tread. They are the tyres on Condor's bike at the moment. Again, in this weather, the choice would be SC1 front and SC2 rear. These would be my recommendation for track day guys - plenty of grip, good wear rates and tyre life, and tread for days where it's damp (but don't forget that they are essentially a slick with token tread to qualify for the 'treaded race tyre' rules, so they really have no more grip than a slick in the rain. But you can at least get out on track when they should be letting slicks out but don't because they are idiots).

Hope that helps!

[Negrogrande]

don't forget that they are essentially a slick with token tread to qualify for the 'treaded race tyre' rules, so they really have no more grip than a slick in the rain. But you can at least get out on track when they should be letting slicks out but don't because they are idiots).

Hope that helps!
sage advice there

outside of the river of Oil & the back section grip was fine when they finally let us out on slicks. now to tear the bike down and replace whatever went peeking through my stator cover

[Condor]

Covered everything i needed to know. Cheers

[Phat3R]

Could we make this a sticky thread Marshy, re your tyres post ... most useful. Yeah I learned my slicks lesson on Thursday ... gotta find some more GSXR600K1 rims for my Q2's.

[Marshy]

Could we make this a sticky thread Marshy, re your tyres post ... most useful.

Stuck! Good idea, thanks :)

[CLIFFY]

I've run half a dozen odd Metzlers.
They do behave the same as the superbikes.
Same life.
Same pressures.
Break traction in the same circumstances.
Over $100 cheaper a set is the only difference I know between these 2.

[windy]

Great info marshy, thanks heaps. Just thought I would ask about dunlop rears? What you think etc. then the question of where is the best place to source these.

[Eddie Lee]

Thanks for the reminder!

Ok, so for the front, the tyre to get is the Dunlop KR106 "UK Ntec" (known as that because it's made in the UK, unlike D211s which are made in France, and KR448/449s which are made in the USA, known as "US Ntecs"). With the KR106, you must get the 302 compound, as the other 2 compounds are too soft and wear out very quickly. The 302 will last roughly forever, and are still the best gripping front tyre on the planet. Honestly, you can do things on the front Dunlop that would have you sliding down the track on any other tyre.

There's plenty of choice in rear tyres. The Bridgestones are very good, particularly the 'old' tyre (the R01). The new V01 has silly amounts of grip initially, but goes away after only 10 laps or so, whereas the R01 isn't as outright grippy but is very consistent over the whole life of the tyre.

The Pirelli rears are good for track day riding, particularly the SC2. They don't have massive outright grip, but they last forever and are consistent. It's currently too cold to be running an SC1 rear anyway (although the fronts are reversed, and you should be running an SC1 front in this weather, and an SC2 when it's much hotter).

I've heard the rear Metzlers are a good thing, but I haven't tried them yet. Similar to the Pirellis.

But these are all slick tyres. The thing to bear in mind is that for track days like Thursday (or all of this week by the sound of it), the organisers won't let you out on a damp track. So if you don't race and only do track days, a treaded tyre is probably the way to go. In that case, there are the equivalent Dunlops to the KR106 and 108, which are the UK Supersports tyre. Exxy, but awesome.

Some guys love the Bridgestone R10s (eg Stu23), but I'm personally not really a fan for racing. Again, awesome initial grip, but the grip doesn't last the life of the tyre. Great for track day pace though.

Then the Pirelli SuperCorsas are essentially the equivalent of the Superbike slicks, but with tread. They are the tyres on Condor's bike at the moment. Again, in this weather, the choice would be SC1 front and SC2 rear. These would be my recommendation for track day guys - plenty of grip, good wear rates and tyre life, and tread for days where it's damp (but don't forget that they are essentially a slick with token tread to qualify for the 'treaded race tyre' rules, so they really have no more grip than a slick in the rain. But you can at least get out on track when they should be letting slicks out but don't because they are idiots).

Hope that helps!

Hey Marshy, I am currently running treaded SC1 front and SC2 rear, what is the difference between it and SP1/SP2??
Haven't timed myself before, but I guess I have improved from >3mins on new SMP section to ~2:20sec, so should I go UK Ntec front and SC2 rear to maximize the front grip for sunny day track riding?? Thanks

[Marshy]

Hey Marshy, I am currently running treaded SC1 front and SC2 rear, what is the difference between it and SP1/SP2??
Haven't timed myself before, but I guess I have improved from >3mins on new SMP section to ~2:20sec, so should I go UK Ntec front and SC2 rear to maximize the front grip for sunny day track riding?? Thanks

Hey Eddie, do you mean the Superbike Pro when you say SP1/SP2?

There are a few different Pirelli models. There's the Superbike slicks, which are the proper 'race' slick, and also the Superbike Pro slicks, which are confusingly not for racing but are the 'track day' tyre. They have waaaaay less grip, but are designed to last a long time. As the proper Superbike SC2 rear lasts for weeks already, I cannot see the point of the Pro version and don't recommend them for anyone! By all accounts, any decent rider will quickly overcome their limited grip.

The treaded Pirellis (the SuperCorsa) are essentially the same as the Superbike tyres. They are a good tyre, and are particularly great for trackdays as mentioned, because you can get on track when it's declared 'wet' and it shouldn't be.

If you don't have spare rims to put them on, I'd stick with what you are using for a bit longer Eddie, and maybe later in the year give the UK front a go.

[Marshy]

I've run half a dozen odd Metzlers.
They do behave the same as the superbikes.
Same life.
Same pressures.
Break traction in the same circumstances.
Over $100 cheaper a set is the only difference I know between these 2.

They are actually made in the same factory! Some guys say they are identical except for the branding, and other guys reckon the compound is just slightly different. But yeah, same production line, so essentially the same product ;)

[Marshy]

Great info marshy, thanks heaps. Just thought I would ask about dunlop rears? What you think etc. then the question of where is the best place to source these.

Dunlop rears are a vexed question, as I struggle to get consistent performance from them. I used to run them quite a bit, but moved on due to this inconsistency. Recently I've been running the UK Ntec KR108 rears; I was lucky enough to pick up a couple of lightly used ones, and they were awesome!! I got 2 full days of hard use before they'd heat-cycle off (they looked great, but the grip really went away). Great, very even wear; loved them!

Then I bought 3 new ones (they are $440 each!!), and destroyed 2 of them in about half a day each. Very expensive exercise, that one :frusty: Buggered if I know why; I haven't quite sorted that yet - possibly a temperature issue?

The US rears are kinda fun! They are awesome for 10 or 15 laps, then they get quite slippery and squirrelly but continue to provie heaps of grip, even though they are sliding around a lot. I actually like this feel quite a bit, and often I go fastest when I've taken the initial outright grip from a tyre and it starts moving around a bit (or even a lot).

The major, major advantage with Dunlop rears is that they slide very, very progressively. It's actually not unsettling to hang the rear out in a big powerslide - something that will highside you on another brand. Pirellis particularly, and less so the Bridgestone, when you pass the limit just let go suddenly, with no warning. But it's swings-and-roundabouts: the progressive sliding also means that they move around more. Suits me, but not some people.

But tyre life isn't fantastic from the Dunlops (any of them, really). They are much more sensitive to temperature than some other brands, so it's important to get the right compound for the conditions. They are prone to tearing up, and when they do, they don't recover or 'clean up' like some tyres if you go gently on them for a bit.

[Eddie Lee]

Hey Eddie, do you mean the Superbike Pro when you say SP1/SP2?

There are a few different Pirelli models. There's the Superbike slicks, which are the proper 'race' slick, and also the Superbike Pro slicks, which are confusingly not for racing but are the 'track day' tyre. They have waaaaay less grip, but are designed to last a long time. As the proper Superbike SC2 rear lasts for weeks already, I cannot see the point of the Pro version and don't recommend them for anyone! By all accounts, any decent rider will quickly overcome their limited grip.

The treaded Pirellis (the SuperCorsa) are essentially the same as the Superbike tyres. They are a good tyre, and are particularly great for trackdays as mentioned, because you can get on track when it's declared 'wet' and it shouldn't be.

If you don't have spare rims to put them on, I'd stick with what you are using for a bit longer Eddie, and maybe later in the year give the UK front a go.

I meant Diablo Supercorsa SP tyres. I know for Pirelli, there are:

Treaded:
- Diablo Supercorsa SC compound (that's what I am using on my bike at the moment :whoo:)
- Diablo Supercorsa SP compound...? (Don't what that is but I heard of there is something like this if not wrong...? :der:)

Slick:
- Diablo Superbike Slick SC (those are the SC1 and SC2 we were talking about for slick)
- Diablo Superbike Pro Slick (As you mentioned above, last long but not as gripy)

So does it mean the supercorsa sc is the same as the superbike slick sc just the treaded version theoretically speaking?

Yea true, so far I am quite comfortable on the tyres I am running, prob no point to spend a grand on spare rims and much higher value on uk ntec. By the way, what's the difference on price for uk ntec front and sc1 front?

[windy]

Dunlop rears are a vexed question, as I struggle to get consistent performance from them. I used to run them quite a bit, but moved on due to this inconsistency. Recently I've been running the UK Ntec KR108 rears; I was lucky enough to pick up a couple of lightly used ones, and they were awesome!! I got 2 full days of hard use before they'd heat-cycle off (they looked great, but the grip really went away). Great, very even wear; loved them!

Then I bought 3 new ones (they are $440 each!!), and destroyed 2 of them in about half a day each. Very expensive exercise, that one :frusty: Buggered if I know why; I haven't quite sorted that yet - possibly a temperature issue?

The US rears are kinda fun! They are awesome for 10 or 15 laps, then they get quite slippery and squirrelly but continue to provie heaps of grip, even though they are sliding around a lot. I actually like this feel quite a bit, and often I go fastest when I've taken the initial outright grip from a tyre and it starts moving around a bit (or even a lot).

The major, major advantage with Dunlop rears is that they slide very, very progressively. It's actually not unsettling to hang the rear out in a big powerslide - something that will highside you on another brand. Pirellis particularly, and less so the Bridgestone, when you pass the limit just let go suddenly, with no warning. But it's swings-and-roundabouts: the progressive sliding also means that they move around more. Suits me, but not some people.

But tyre life isn't fantastic from the Dunlops (any of them, really). They are much more sensitive to temperature than some other brands, so it's important to get the right compound for the conditions. They are prone to tearing up, and when they do, they don't recover or 'clean up' like some tyres if you go gently on them for a bit.

Thanks mate, fantastic info.

[BoB]

Tyre compounds.. ???

Currently using up my 003's and r10 rears , am i correct in saying that a hard tyre would be best suited for the colder days and the soft ones for hot track temp. If that theory is correct is it the hard tyre generates more heat when flexed compared to the soft one reducing cold tear issue.

Anyone else using the 003's or r10 rears . do you use them until it wears just just above the wear indicator or much below .. are they progressive in loosing grip when they get below the wear indicator ( is the wear indicator just for street legal use?)

[chubb]

Depends on the manufacturer. Bridgestones go softer in compound if its cold and harder if its hot. Dunlops are the opposite. Pirellis are different again with front and rear at polar ends.

According to whitey, I run my slicks till I cant see the wear indicator no more. Usually last 2 to 3 days. The fronts last slightly longer

[Baddie]

Here a few videos/reading material that may help with your choices :scared:

Bridgestone V01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpTAS5MDm1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm_WZOAMjZE

http://feelthetrack.com/testing-program/tire-testing/bridgestone-v01-tire-test/bridgestone-v01-test-broadford-raceway-victoria/New Pirelli Range.

http://moto.bridgestone.eu/knowledge/news/2013/01/new-racing-battlax-v01-motorcycle-slick-tyre/


Pirelli 2013 range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65lVAk0Wr5Q

[Marshy]

Interesting!! (mostly). The Broadford one is a joke, though.

[dan]

What is the cheapest option when it comes to buying tyres new?

[Mr.Ed]

What is the cheapest option when it comes to buying tyres new?


Slow and very few laps! ;)

[Marshy]

Slow and very few laps! ;)

Hmmm.... I like that ;)


Dan, you miiight need to be more specific. Brand? Model? Size?

[dan]

Haha yes, of course. I'm very fond of my French and UK Ntecs. What is the best option for picking up new ones?

[dan]

Basically... is there a good option locally or do people look o/s?

[Mazabuzz]

These guys are really good and quick delivery. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DUNLOP-SPORTMAX-D211-RACING-SLICKS-120-70-17-MED-190-55-17-SOFT-GP-RACER-/161011987130?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257d0ff2ba

[Mr.Ed]

Yep, I've bought from them before and other than having to add the tire change $ at the track no complaints!

[dan]

Got Marshy for tyre changing!

[Mr.Ed]

Then you're sorted! ;)

[Jashdown]

Since this is a tyre thread, I would like to point that superbike SC2's don't work great when the track temp is over 40. The sucker was sliding all over the place.

[CLIFFY]

Should've been on 1 yesterday

[Jashdown]

Yes I should have. The one day I didn't bring the spare sc1 was the day I actually needed it. Will be chucking an SC1 on for the rest of summer.

What about the front? Still use sc1 or switch it to the sc2?

[senator8]

If its hot enough for a sc1 rear you can probably use a sc0. Info I've been given and experienced myself is more grip and slightly more durable and not quite as sensitive to set up.
With the front. Most the faster riders don't use 1 or 2 due to heat or cold but which they prefer the feel for their set up or for a particular track. The different construction and compound makes them feel a bit different to each other.

[CLIFFY]

I only run the 2 on the front now
Haven't tried the 0 but aren't they only good for one heat cycle?

[senator8]

I only run the 2 on the front now
Haven't tried the 0 but aren't they only good for one heat cycle?

Yeah, I only use sc2 front as well.
The old compound SC0, I heard the same but never used them myself and guys I know that did said it was untrue. (might have been a Dunlop started rumour :) ) The new compound haven't heard or experienced that, but the grip difference is very noticeable on the big bike off the turns. I doubt I'll buy anymore 1s. Between Sc2 & SC0 covers most for me.

[CLIFFY]

Have to give the 0 a go then when these are done

[chubb]

I used a 1 on the front.

Difference between a 1 front and a 2 front?

[Jashdown]

Cheers for the info. I have a couple of SC1 rears lying around, so I will use them for the rest of summer, and I'll give the two different fronts a go seeing as I have both of them too.

Also with the sc2 rear I used yesterday, the wear was strange, there was very little balling up of the rubber on the edges and the overall surface was fairly smooth, compared to how it was after the St George meet where the rubber balled up a lot and the wear looked good. Was running the same pressure for both of them, 27 psi straight off the track. Would it just be because the track was too hot and it wasn't working?

[senator8]

I used a 1 on the front.

Difference between a 1 front and a 2 front?

Subjectively? The 2 feels stiffer, which I prefer. In my imagination anyway. Although, again some much faster than me with data to support feel the same. Some prefer the 1 which feels a little more squashed into the tarmac. Some prefer this planted feeling. To give you and idea, I was hanging out in one of the teams garages at EC and they were swapping between the two tyres to see if the sc1 would ride the bumps a little better. The times were virtually identical, but the rider went back to the sc2 because he preferred it.


Cheers for the info. I have a couple of SC1 rears lying around, so I will use them for the rest of summer, and I'll give the two different fronts a go seeing as I have both of them too.

Also with the sc2 rear I used yesterday, the wear was strange, there was very little balling up of the rubber on the edges and the overall surface was fairly smooth, compared to how it was after the St George meet where the rubber balled up a lot and the wear looked good. Was running the same pressure for both of them, 27 psi straight off the track. Would it just be because the track was too hot and it wasn't working?

Hard to say Josh. Could have just been the way you were riding or the heat or that the tyre was already worn.

[Negrogrande]

UK NTECs

where do I get em?

I have frenchies ATM moment but I am near a new set, so looking at getting a set of those.

Cheers,
Andrew

[Mr.Ed]

UK Ntecs really are as good as ppl say... but the rears require a lot of fine tuning of the suspension/pressures or you'll shred them to bits in 2 sessions or less. For some reason, the front seems to be able to take a lot of abuse. The best/worst part is that it will give you LOADS of grip even when you're destroying the rear tire so not that easy to know when you're on the bike. That means you can go out there, feel great on the bike and when you come back in it looks like Freddie Kruger visited your tire in its sleep. Well, at least that's what I found anyway...

You can get UK Ntecs from heaps of places, even Madaz sells them... prob not cheapest though.

[dan]

Marshy mentioned Monza Imports the other day for UK Ntecs (I think????). Otherwise direct from Dunlop at ASBK rounds?

[Marshy]

UK Ntecs really are as good as ppl say... but the rears require a lot of fine tuning of the suspension/pressures or you'll shred them to bits in 2 sessions or less. For some reason, the front seems to be able to take a lot of abuse. The best/worst part is that it will give you LOADS of grip even when you're destroying the rear tire so not that easy to know when you're on the bike. That means you can go out there, feel great on the bike and when you come back in it looks like Freddie Kruger visited your tire in its sleep. Well, at least that's what I found anyway...

Totally agree! I've destroyed a few rears in 5 laps, which really hurts the back pocket!!

Your local bike shop can order them in for you. They are the same price everywhere - the shop pays a high price, so it's best if you have a good relationship with them so they don't shaft you with a hefty margin on top. But assuming they don't, there's no money in it for them, so be nice to them! Castle Hill motorcycles used to get them in and not shaft you on the price.

Or, the best way is to go to a race meet that Dunlop are servicing (FX or ASBK), and buy a trailer load directly from Monza.

[Marshy]

Oh, the only front compound to buy is the 302. The others are softer and liable to shred in no time.

[Mr.Ed]

Do they still make the treaded 190 UK? That thing was AWESOME and a bit more user friendly than the slick... haven't seen one for ages though

[Marshy]

Do they still make the treaded 190 UK? That thing was AWESOME and a bit more user friendly than the slick... haven't seen one for ages though

I think so, but they were always a little bit more expensive than the slick, which hurt the wallet even more.

[Mr.Ed]

I had a rear last me quite a bit though... and the fronts are like the highlander of the front tires. So if they're only a little more expensive I reckon they'd be a good choice. Not to mention that you wouldn't have worry so much about geometry changes and other minor setup issues like trying to find out how to get the 195/70(65??) to fit in your swingarm without adding a link to the chain.

[KANGA]

Hey guys. Managed to wear our the left side of my supercorsa rear on the weekend. Got a free used dunlop KR449 rear when me and no_style bought our new trailer. There is a guy I have found selling dunlop KR106 fronts for a decent price so thinking about grabbing one. Will that mix and match ok with the KR449 rear?
Other option is if anyone has a used but in in ok nick supercorsa or superbike rear they are willing to let go for a decent price since my supercorsa front is fine would be good to. PM me if you are interested in getting rid of one.
No job + track days = no new tyres lol

[Nelso]

Hey guys. Managed to wear our the left side of my supercorsa rear on the weekend. Got a free used dunlop KR449 rear when me and no_style bought our new trailer. There is a guy I have found selling dunlop KR106 fronts for a decent price so thinking about grabbing one. Will that mix and match ok with the KR449 rear?
Other option is if anyone has a used but in in ok nick supercorsa or superbike rear they are willing to let go for a decent price since my supercorsa front is fine would be good to. PM me if you are interested in getting rid of one.
No job + track days = no new tyres lol

KR106 front with KR449 rear work well together. Plenty of us have run that combination.

[KANGA]

KR106 front with KR449 rear work well together. Plenty of us have run that combination.
Awesome, cheers mate! :thumb: Nice meeting you yesterday, always nice putting a face to a name.

[Marshy]

KR106 front with KR449 rear work well together. Plenty of us have run that combination.

+1. This is better than the KR 449 rear and the matching KR448 front!!

[KANGA]

Next question since I'm trying to work on the cheap, apparently I'm a bit of a wuss on right hander and the supercorsa has a lot more meat on that side. I know that your not supposed to flip treaded tyres because they won't push away water properly. Since i have no intention of running it in the rain would I be ok with flipping it or are there more reasons then just the water issue to take in to consideration with treaded tyres?
Obviously I don't want to risk crashing because I cheaped out on tyres but if it seems relatively risk free it might be an option.

[chubb]

I flipped the supercorsa no worries

[Marshy]

For the rear, flip away! Fronts can be flipped too, but it depends on the brand/model.

[Phat3R]

I accidentally flipped front Pirelli Superbike SC1 ... didn't seem to effect things. Well I did bin it but it was the rear that let go and it was right way round.

Someone should start up a tyre exchange program between left and right hand circuit riders.

[KANGA]

Sahweeetttt!!!

[KANGA]

Right me again. So ordered a second hand set of superbike slicks of fleabay. Unfortunately didn't check to much on the specifications of tyre size for them. They are 200/60. Given I'm on a zx6r with a 5.5 inch wide rim and pirelli recommends a 6inch wide rim is it a big no no to try and run them?

[chubb]

Ed has run a 200 in the past

[Mr.Ed]

Not the Pirellis... IIRC they're not meant to be used on a 5.5 rim

[No_Style]

In that scenario, would the US Dunlop NTEC be alright?
I read a spec for these that also recommends a 6" rim width, but listed the permitted rim width as 5.5-6.25", so I assume they're safe on a 5.5" rim, but perhaps you don't get optimal handling or wear from them or something. Would that be a fair assumption?

[Mr.Ed]

Yep, Ntecs are fine. I had all nations and formats and they all fitted just fine.

[CLIFFY]

I got a US 200 on at the moment

[Condor]

Just wondering, are the pirelli tyres the world superbike and supersport guys use the same as the ones we get off the shelf??

Im assuming not, and they would be much better.

[Marshy]

Just wondering, are the pirelli tyres the world superbike and supersport guys use the same as the ones we get off the shelf??

Not even close. In addition, there are different levels of tyre for different teams/riders (not that there's supposed to be). I heard some battling aussies were struggling to get the better tyres.

Nothing is as it seems.... allegedly.

[Negrogrande]

Not even close. In addition, there are different levels of tyre for different teams/riders (not that there's supposed to be). I heard some battling aussies were struggling to get the better tyres.

Nothing is as it seems.... allegedly.

I thought the superstock ones where? I know for sure the big boys aren't Steve Martin rattles of these different compound names

[phillmac]

Why am I not surprised, wonder what the big boys pay for the special compounds.
Not even close. In addition, there are different levels of tyre for different teams/riders (not that there's supposed to be). I heard some battling aussies were struggling to get the better tyres.

Nothing is as it seems.... allegedly.

[Condor]

Not even close. In addition, there are different levels of tyre for different teams/riders (not that there's supposed to be). I heard some battling aussies were struggling to get the better tyres.

Nothing is as it seems.... allegedly.

Yeah thought so. Know a couple of fellas that know a couple of fellas in the US motocross scene and they reckon there biggest advantage from the common Lad is the tries they run. Full custom for the top riders from track to track.

[DisPlaCeD]

Right me again. So ordered a second hand set of superbike slicks of fleabay. Unfortunately didn't check to much on the specifications of tyre size for them. They are 200/60. Given I'm on a zx6r with a 5.5 inch wide rim and pirelli recommends a 6inch wide rim is it a big no no to try and run them?

I run a Pirelli 200 series SC1/2/0 no problem.
Going back to 180/60 for the supercorsa's for PI Pirelli round.

[Marshy]

What he said ^^

200s are fine on a 600. TBH, they make a better shape - more rounded for extra turn - by being pulled in by the narrower rim.

[chubb]

Wouldn't that equate to less contact patch since the tyre is being pinched?

[DisPlaCeD]

Wouldn't that equate to less contact patch since the tyre is being pinched?

I ran a 180 for half a day, then changed to the 200. Personally found the 200 be more stable when leaned over, then when coming out of the corner under hard power, that's when you need a contact patch and let me just say, it's orgasmic!! haha

[chubb]

Hmmm interesting.

I tried moving to a 190 (let alone a 200) and set the geometry for the bigger rubber.

Bike handled like crap was sluggish and I lost time! Couldn't get the power down as it kept spinning up.

Went back to a 180 went went quicker ! Figure that !

[Marshy]

Wouldn't that equate to less contact patch since the tyre is being pinched?

Not necessarily. The tyre will deform and flatten just at the contact patch (and a bit around it) as the weight of the bike loads the tyre under power. This is even more pronounced in low-pressure tyres, which use a stiffer sidewall and more deformable contact surface (for exactly this reason). But the overall more rounded shape contributes to the handling on tip-in, where the tyre is unloaded and therefore not deformed into a flat pancake.

Your error might have been in changing the geometry at all. I used to do that, but discovered it didn't really have the effect I was hoping for. I had better results just leaving the geometry alone, even when switching between ultra tall UK ntecs and the old small bridgestone 180 R04s. The difference in height between the two was 20mm, from memory (which is 10mm in real terms, as you only measure 'half' - ie from the ground to the swingarm pivot). What you compensate for in ride height, you might lose in tyre shape and position of the contact patch.

[DisPlaCeD]

Your error might have been in changing the geometry at all. I used to do that, but discovered it didn't really have the effect I was hoping for. I had better results just leaving the geometry alone, even when switching between ultra tall UK ntecs and the old small bridgestone 180 R04s. The difference in height between the two was 20mm, from memory (which is 10mm in real terms, as you only measure 'half' - ie from the ground to the swingarm pivot). What you compensate for in ride height, you might lose in tyre shape and position of the contact patch.

Yep, I left the geometry alone. Wanted to see how the bike reacted to the tyre change with the setting I had. Only had to change rear rebound and it was sweet! :)

[Mr.Ed]

Yep, I always like the 200 on the ZX6R... I agree 100% with Grant re the bike feeling planted and not spinning. Weirdly enough, one of the corners I felt the 200 helped the most was T2!!

But then again, I didn't like it on the R6. Both 100% stock. I do think the 190 felt better at WP for some reason though.

[James_]

Anyone know much about Metzlers?
The race series I am entering next year is metzlers only. I have done a cold slippery day on a set of k2's, seemed ok but first ride on a new bike so wasn't pushing anywhere near enough to feel tyres proper like.

[chubb]

The racetecs are a good tyre.. They are similar to the pirellis but slightly harder carcass.. Pirellis grip better but doesnt last as long. All in all good tyre.

K1 front and K2 rear works well.. hot weather go K1.

[James_]

Cheers dude. basically, k2 = cold track, k1 = warm/hot track?
Good to hear the wear is gradual. With about 8 rounds in season cost is a concern.
Not expecting it to be hot exactly. First few rounds might still have snow on the circuit, come summer I might get one day where need to run k1.

[chubb]

Go buy them from Craig White.. cheap cheap..

[James_]

Sounds great, however shipping might exceed cost of tyres! Im in London.

[Phat3R]

James - could you please post the links to the comp you are looking at doing. Be interesting to see the circuits ... all over the UK?

[Cat]

Found a good price on Dunlop D211 GP-A tyres. Anyone used these? http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tire-catalog/sport-trackday-race/road-race/d211-gp-a/

[chubb]

I used the D212s.. farking great tyre!!

http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_euen/mc/tyres/on_road/Sportmax_D212_GP_Pro.jsp

[simonr]

I used the D212s.. farking great tyre!!

http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_euen/mc/tyres/on_road/Sportmax_D212_GP_Pro.jsp

How do they wear compared to the d211? The dunlop guy tried to get me to buy another d211 and said the d212 wears very quickly

[chubb]

never used the d211..

also to consider how long is a piece of string... some people smooth on the throttle get more life, some people hard on the throttle and spin it up then its gonna wear out quicker... your pace comes into play as well

[Marshy]

It's grip versus longevity, too. The 211 lasted longer but had less outright grip, compound for compound.

[senator8]

How do they wear compared to the d211? The dunlop guy tried to get me to buy another d211 and said the d212 wears very quickly

It very well may, but it's hard to tell because they will tell you whatever to sell what they want sadly.

[simonr]

It very well may, but it's hard to tell because they will tell you whatever to sell what they want sadly.

exactly what I thought

[WETTY]

I used the D212s.. farking great tyre!!

http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_euen/mc/tyres/on_road/Sportmax_D212_GP_Pro.jsp

but the 211 beat you last time

211 heat cycle much better , 212 only good for 1 day , days 2 just spin , but it does depend how quick your lapping .

[chubb]

but the 211 beat you last time

211 heat cycle much better , 212 only good for 1 day , days 2 just spin , but it does depend how quick your lapping .

correction the 211 only beat me on the Sunday... it lost Saturday...

[WETTY]

i did say LAST time!!!!!!


did you find the 212 was ok on 2nd day ? did you use it for 2 days ?

[chubb]

lol they did hold up well.. but after about 4 heat cycles they're pretty much spinning up

[WETTY]

lol they did hold up well.. but after about 4 heat cycles they're pretty much spinning up

4 cycles is 1 day. or is a heat cycle to you 1 day?

[chubb]

one day to me